Jim Henson and Kermit the Frog vs. Walt Disney and Mickey Mouse

[Mr Devco]

I would say jim because after hearing how much of a bad person walt was (anti-semetic, ect) I can't watch his movies the same way.

 

[frogboy4]

I would say jim because after hearing how much of a bad person walt was (anti-semetic, ect) I can't watch his movies the same way.

I have heard that too and have felt conflicted about it. Anti-Semitism, as all prejudice, is disgusting.

There are a couple little Wiki facts I searched through and found them to be interesting. Walt Disney and Jim Henson were born 35 years apart. Henson spent his early childhood in Leland, Mississippi while Irish-Canadian Disney spent his early years in Marceline, Missouri. Different states but close in proximity and similar in mindset. I find it interesting how one man can grew up more sensitive than the other.

I don't think Walt Disney was an outright anti-Semite. Such views were very prevalent in his day (as were so many other prejudices) and it appears that like most people he just went along and ignored it. He even had problematic caricatures in his cartoons, but Warner Brothers did too and they were pointed at every minority back then. I'm not praising Walt Disney for maintaining the status-quo when it comes to societal prejudice, yet I cannot condemn him for feelings I can't know he held.

Nobody can know another person's heart. I do find it inspiring that Jim Henson embraced differences in such a unique way. That is what I focus on when measuring the two icons of entertainment. I don't have condemnation for Walt Disney. I have high praise for Jim Henson.

 

[wwfpooh]

I have heard that too and have felt conflicted about it. Anti-Semitism, as all prejudice, is disgusting.

Yes, but the thing of it is, Walt just rode along for the ride in regards to how things were in the time period in which he lived. Therefore, you cannot really blame Walt for the crux of society being racist or whatever. I mean, that's like blaming Elmo solely for the deconstruction of Sesame Street. Yes, Elmo helped by relishing in his newfound status, but if it were not for stores promoting him & audiences eating up every bit of new Elmo material they could, then Elmo would still be where he was originally...just as a background monster character.

I don't think Walt Disney was an outright anti-Semite.

Plus, his surviving relatives have said that all that was just hooey promoted by the demoralization of the world. Both that so-called anti-semitism and that whole cryogentic freezing story are a load of bullocks, considering one of the most reputable sites that deals primarily with Urban Legends--snopes.com--has debunked them both (along with debunking the infamous "hanging munchkin" myth popularized by Wizard of Oz/Wicked fans).

But regarding this battle of man and frog verses man and mouse, I do agree that Kermit is more "real", due to his accessibility and ability to live in three-demensions (and his ability to basically "live" a life of his own without Jim now to guide him), but Mickey will always have a place--alongside Kermit--in my heart, because of his nice guy attitude and because Jim himself chose to associate with the Disney company, despite what faults the Mouse House has had over the years.

Unfortunately, that association may be tied in with money, because with the Jim Henson Company being a relatively small organization, it has needed some way to keep its various characters--and the franchises within which said characters reside in--inside the minds and memories of everyone who's been touched by the moving masterpeices Jim and company have made over many decades.

As "Million Dollar Man" Ted DiBiase often said, "Everybody's got a price", and that price is the association between the Henson company and the Mouse House.

Thusly, what better way to keep the various Muppet franchise alive than to stick with the most somewhat beloved company that's maintained its status--despite pitfalls here and there--for practically years upon years?


As such, because the frog and mouse are now family, I hereby now refuse to pit them against each other in a family fued anymore.

 

[frogboy4]

On another note - does anyone feel conflicted over the costumed Muppets? I kind of do. I mean, I like them, but prefer what they are doing with the Muppet Mobile Lab. Having both co-exist seems a little weird to me, but I'm sure that's just my being picky.

 

[wwfpooh]

On another note - does anyone feel conflicted over the costumed Muppets? I kind of do. I mean, I like them, but prefer what they are doing with the Muppet Mobile Lab. Having both co-exist seems a little weird to me, but I'm sure that's just my being picky.

As long as The Muppets are being positively exposed to audiences/crowds, I am a happy Muppet fan. ^_^

 

[Baby Gonzo]

On another note - does anyone feel conflicted over the costumed Muppets? I kind of do. I mean, I like them, but prefer what they are doing with the Muppet Mobile Lab. Having both co-exist seems a little weird to me, but I'm sure that's just my being picky.

Well, that depends. Sweetums works, because he IS a costumed Muppet (though that's a given, really), but Kermit and Miss Piggy and other Muppets don't seem to work as much. This is mainly becuase we, as viewers, are used to seeing them in scale. They are meant to be short and small. The Muppet Mobile Labs seems to work because they are in scale.... Or at least closer to the size they are meant to be.

 

[wwfpooh]

Well, that depends. Sweetums works, because he IS a costumed Muppet (though that's a given, really), but Kermit and Miss Piggy and other Muppets don't seem to work as much. This is mainly becuase we, as viewers, are used to seeing them in scale. They are meant to be short and small. The Muppet Mobile Labs seems to work because they are in scale.... Or at least closer to the size they are meant to be.

But remember, the costumed characters are mainly geared towards children and the costumes are made to make the characters they resemble larger than life, for certainly Mickey is NOT really 6 feet or so!

 

[Vic Romano]

I would say jim because after hearing how much of a bad person walt was (anti-semetic, ect) I can't watch his movies the same way.

I thought that was an urban legend, just like his cryogenically frozen head? If there is any truth to it, I'd have to agree with Jamie and wwfpooh about the time period. I know lots of old WWII veterans who say things that may sound predjiduce when I believe them to simply be "not PC", and I know that they're absolutely not predjiduce.

 

[CensoredAlso]

There are so many stories around about Walt, it's hard to know what's true anymore. And it is important to remember that times were different. The US wasn't really as unified as it is now (despite our current problems, we have definitely come a long way). People didn't think they were being insensitive or cruel, it was just a different society.

So some jokes were definitely mean and discriminatory. But other jokes were just "not PC" and weren't meant to be cruel.

 

[wwfpooh]

I know lots of old WWII veterans who say things that may sound predjiduce when I believe them to simply be "not PC", and I know that they're absolutely not predjiduce.

Agreed. Times and people have changed to the point that PC police say that anything that could be misinterpreted as offensive is not politically correct or something asinine like that. I mean, what's next...Fraggles wearing pants & Boober being more like Sidebottom all because of the PC police?