It's a Very Merry Muppet Christmas Appreciation Thread!

[frogboy4]

To me, though, Oz's Poppyfields is worse than Club Dot because at least Dot was JUST a club. It didn't have (and I concede I'm naive with drug references) the same connotations that I KNOW Poppyfields had. I know what poppies are for. I guess the dot could be some 60s LSD reference, but that's a stretch, considering it just looks like a typical nightclub/bar.

There was a Dot Bar and Lounge in San Francisco's Japantown (proof), but I think it closed. Word was the staff was uppity toward the customers and would often forget about their orders. It always made me think of Mrs. Bitterman.

Poppys (and the reference) were a part of the original Oz story so I wasn't offended when they just made it into a nightclub for the Muppets' telling. I actually like that they were more faithful to the story than other versions of the classic.

 

[RedPiggy]

I know Poppyfields references the original. I was only mentioning that if anyone were going to go "ick" over something, it would beat Dot in that department.

 

[frogboy4]

I know Poppyfields references the original. I was only mentioning that if anyone were going to go "ick" over something, it would beat Dot in that department.

I see what you mean. I do think some people were offended by Scooter's (alternate universe) cage dancing and Sam's (alternate universe) rave dancing with pacifier (a well known accessory for the abuse of a particular substance) and glowsticks. Both really are harmless and I liked Scooter's bit because it demonstrated what happens to the idol hands of an energetic gofer with nothing to do.

Robin's part was funny to me because I have always felt that many restaurants fill expensive bottles with tap water. Just my paranoia.

 

[Super Scooter]

I liked Scooter's bit because it demonstrated what happens to the idol hands of an energetic gofer with nothing to do.

That's a nice way of putting it. That's how I felt about it, and laughed quite a bit when I first saw it. Couldn't resist. It's the perfect example of just how necessary Kermit is.

 

[RedPiggy]

It's not paranoia. I've read plenty of articles griping that testing shows that lots of bottled water IS just tap. At least it's not as bad as this dream I had a couple of nights ago, where I drink a whole liter of bottled water, pass out (I can sleep and dream in my dreams), and wake up only to find out that it was the water from Moraine, a kingdom from Return to Labyrinth, which has thought-stealing properties.

 

[Baby Gonzo]

Pepe. I hadn't watched a lot of Muppet's Tonight, so this was the first real exposure I had to him. I am in love. He first struck me as what Rizzo used to be in the 80s, or even a more intense Rizzo, but I can appreciate him now as his own character. He's the Bugs Bunny of the group, easily attracted by temptation but more than able to outwit his opponents at the last moment if you cross him. I'm a big admirer of quick thinkers.

Fozzie. I bet some people might use his "chase scene" as an example of the mean-spiritedness, but really, Fozzie's always suffered from low self-esteem. It's really unfortunate, because Fozzie is incredibly funny when he's not trying too hard. He is just natural comedy. I think that's why AU Fozzie ends up a pick-pocket. It represents more concretely his dependence on others to survive because he doesn't see himself as worthy of having his own life. That's why he basically uses Kermit as a crutch all through the years. He's a great character opposite Kermit, but he doesn't NEED Kermit actually. He thinks he does, but he doesn't.

I agree about Pepe and Fozzie. But it actually took years for Pepe to grow on me. Probably a decade, in fact. But I rewatched this movie recently and I realized that not only did it seem natural for him to be there, but he's just a fun character in his own right.

Robin's part was funny to me because I have always felt that many restaurants fill expensive bottles with tap water. Just my paranoia.

Personally, I'm just glad he wasn't another froggy statistic of Doc Hopper's. That would have been even more depressing.

 

[RedPiggy]

I'm surprised Robin was even in NY. I thought the only reason he was there was to be near Kermit at the theater. Without Kermit, shouldn't he be living in the swamp with his family?

 

[dwmckim]

Personally VMX is one of my fave Muppet projects though it's not perfect there's just all sorts of great Muppety goodness and laugh out loud moments! I'm really quite surprised that it's not more accepted by other Muppet fans that post about it. Really the only things i didn't care for was the pacing (esp the beginning which gets off to a slow start and is a bit light on Muppets for the first 10-15 minutes) and too much NBC stars forced cameos, but this was really the project that gave me an overall great feeling watching it going "Yes - the Muppets are back where they need to be!" Like Wizard of Oz, i could tell they had a lot of great stuff filmed but cut to fit in a specific time constraint, some of which we got as deleted scenes on the dvd - but i would really love to see it get the "orginal extended cut" treatment that Oz got on its dvd release.

I wasn't that upset by lack of songs - songs can be both really great or they can really have the opposite effect they're meant to - sometimes too many songs have the result of slowing down everything (like "insert song here to fill quota") and take away plot and character moments...and if the songs aren't all that great, that makes it worse (I usually love Paul Williams but most of the songs in MCC were definately not among his best and after awhile got very annoying) - the Moulin Scrooge number was one of the all-time great Muppet moments and that alone was worth the price of admission! I also loved the beginning half of "Everything Matters" (though the second half once it got to the chorus was a bit sappy to me) - and just these by themselves were satisfying for me personally.

They got in some great jabs at so many classic Christmas specials and tales!

Club Dot was a fave of mine - i'm not as easily offended as some others tend to be and of course the whole point was that had with the resulting Butterfly Effect (or in a frog's case, Mosquito Effect?) that Kermit's never having been born had on the world, the out-of-characterness of the characters made perfect sense and why the shocking elements worked. There were be those who claim Muppets should never make nipple jokes (Oz) or have a cage-dancing Scooter in a ___fantasy(!)___ sequence and be these squeaky clean, always-play-it-safe, eternally pc, pure white as the driven snow cute lil' puppets. I'm not one of them - i love them when they dance near that edge (which when at their best they do quite frequently but still manage not to cross over into the blue category as found in South Park or Crank Yankers) and if they ever became saccharine or afraid of being non-offensive, that's when they would lose all the things that made them great. And that Scooter shot? Had me bellylaughing harder than anything else in the entire movie i'm sure much to the chagrin of my apartment neighbors)

In many ways, i felt that this was very much a first-major-project-after-MuppetFest influenced project. To me it seemed like after the creative team got a sense of its hardcore fan base and what we wanted to see and what we were tired of, VMX greatly benefitted from that whole experience (Yes, KSY also came out after MF, but it was already filmed and in the stages of post-production during the fest) VMX was really a true Christmas gift to this longtime Muppet fan and still holds up as one of my personal faves. This is one i wouldn't hesitate to reccomend to people (certainly not tell them to avoid it!)

 

[Drtooth]

Poppys (and the reference) were a part of the original Oz story so I wasn't offended when they just made it into a nightclub for the Muppets' telling.

Wasn't the Poppy Club one of the multiple things they "borrowed" from The Wiz? I haven't seen Wiz in years, and I can't remember anything about it.

Anyway, I gotta admit, I liked that Poppy Club scene because at least the Electric Mayhem were in a Muppet project again.

But I think the DOT was one of the more poignant parts of the dark universe without Kermit... a miserable, cold, mechanical little place that exists to make money in contrast to the cracking apart, organic theater where the characters all tried their best to make a show to entertain others. Try, anyway.

There are a couple things I would have changed..... Fozzie being a hack comedian bouncing club to club... Sam the Eagle being a left wing talk show host... but I think they got Scooter, Piggy and especially Gonzo down pat. Piggy being unconfident, Gonzo trying his act out like a street performer, and Scooter.... well, as Frogboy said, the idle hands of an intern with no where to go...

(though, it could be possible that without Kermit, Grosse would have sold the theater to be the club, and Scooter would have been the Bartender or something).

 

[rexcrk]

Wow... I'm surprised that some of you guys are shocked about some of the stuff in the Kermit-less world (like Sam)... I mean I always figured the joke was that since Kermit wasn't there, everyone acted out of character.

But anyway, I love VMMCM. Maybe 'cause I was born in '88, which was like the transition period from Jim-era stuff to non-Jim-era stuff, so I like both (kind of like how I started watching the Simpsons during it's 11th season, so I like all the really good old episodes, and still like the newer ones). I also liked Muppets Wizard of Oz >_>.

Oh and my favorite line from VMMCM is from Whoopi as "The Boss" when she said "You're just lucky SpongeBob's not on" (years from now I'll be telling my kids: "Oh SpongeBob was this really great cartoon show back when I was a kid" like how my dad had to explain some of the stuff that went over my head in the older movies )