Is Frozen overrated?

[minor muppetz]

On a similar question, I must ask, are the Minions from Despicable Me overrated? I really can't decide. I didn't think they deserved their own movie (which did end up being a decent film), and they make up the majority of Despicable Me merchandise (have there been any toys of the girls?). It seems they were given most of the focus in promos for Despicable Me 2 (I didn't expect the girls to have a big part in the sequel, judging by how little screen time they got in the promos... I assumed Gru had to either rescue them or leave them behind for a mission).

Sometimes I wonder if The Muppets 2011 film is overrated. It's still a great movie, and I'm not tired of it, but it seems like a lot of my friends/acquaintances who aren't big fans of the Muppets really like that while being more-or-less unaware of the older works (I've occasionally talked about The Muppet Movie - the one from 1979 - to people who thought I was talking about this movie instead, I assume most of us have either encountered those people or expected similar confusion based on the titles).

 

[MikaelaMuppet]

On a similar question, I must ask, are the Minions from Despicable Me overrated? I really can't decide. I didn't think they deserved their own movie (which did end up being a decent film), and they make up the majority of Despicable Me merchandise (have there been any toys of the girls?). It seems they were given most of the focus in promos for Despicable Me 2 (I didn't expect the girls to have a big part in the sequel, judging by how little screen time they got in the promos... I assumed Gru had to either rescue them or leave them behind for a mission).

Sometimes I wonder if The Muppets 2011 film is overrated. It's still a great movie, and I'm not tired of it, but it seems like a lot of my friends/acquaintances who aren't big fans of the Muppets really like that while being more-or-less unaware of the older works (I've occasionally talked about The Muppet Movie - the one from 1979 - to people who thought I was talking about this movie instead, I assume most of us have either encountered those people or expected similar confusion based on the titles).

Yes. They are overrated as well.

 

[Drtooth]

On a similar question, I must ask, are the Minions from Despicable Me overrated? I really can't decide. I didn't think they deserved their own movie (which did end up being a decent film), and they make up the majority of Despicable Me merchandise (have there been any toys of the girls?). It seems they were given most of the focus in promos for Despicable Me 2 (I didn't expect the girls to have a big part in the sequel, judging by how little screen time they got in the promos... I assumed Gru had to either rescue them or leave them behind for a mission).

You can't blame them from being a breakout character. Characters. Somehow they managed to make the perfect kid appeal characters. There wasn't even really any merchandise of the characters when the first film came out. Carnival prizes and a thing of Airheads that heavily featured Gru and had the nastiest candy I've ever eaten (Freeze Rain-Bow or something, it was stronger than a Halls). That was it. They have a strong merchandising presence, especially for younger children, but so doesn't Paw Patrol and TMNT. If there's 5 things ubiquitous with little kids it's Paw Patrol, Spongebob, Minions, Frozen, and TMNT. The last one of course makes me very happy.

Then you look at how many advertising agencies willfully stole the Minions for various commercial mascots. Chips Ahoy, McDonalds, General Mills' Cinnamon Toast Crunch, Kelloggs' Crave... Like I said before, at least McD's pretty much embraces their Happy Meal Man is essentially a Minion/Rabbid knockoff.

Other than the merchandising presence (that again, was after the first movie to show how much faith they had in it), the only place I hear about them being overused is Facebook easy memes that old people like. I don't bother with Facebook, so I don't have that perspective. And considering the politically charged, hateful memes that pop up, I'd rather see a smiling Minion than some telephoned half truth about something older Facebookers actually believe.

So in a sense, they are overrated, but the three movies they managed to make so far were far from being bad or lacking fun. The gibberish is annoying to those who don't like gibbering. But there are worse characters to be in that much of a spotlight. It's far from Ice Age levels of not only being overrated but being downright despised. Yeah, you got Buck back from the fifth one, still not interested. or Rio. I still fail to see the appeal, and even fans of the first one hate the second. I've seen far more annoying in film than an Minion.

 

[D'Snowth]

Getting back to the subject of FROZEN, it would seem that even Idina Menzel is now jumping on board with the campaign to make Elsa a lesbian and give her a lover in the sequel, even saying Disney needs to just do it and deal with it.

 

[Drtooth]

I still don't get why this is so important. I get why there should be representation, I don't get why this can't come naturally and come with a new project. It's like I always say, why does such and such have to be a Disney Princess? I get trying racial diversity for the sake of little girls having toys to relate to. But why can't we have an original lesbian character that isn't one of the super hypocritical "proactive feminine role model" princesses that basically sit around drinking tea in dresses for the merchandising? I give all the credit in the world for Pixar's Brave. We have a heroine that actually looks like a teenager and not a hot 20 something model who's entire character arc is to not be a lady like princess against her mother's wishes, and Disney still turned her into various forms of dress up fashion dolls and make up lines. Why would you want that to be representation?

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Judy Hopps is a far superior female role model than all the Princesses put together. She has cross gender appeal without having to pander one way or another (cough cough Tangled). Zootopia was a natural, genderless appeal film. I give credit for Frozen somehow breaking the streak of Princess focused films being ignored by boys. Tangled had to twist and turn itself to look like it appealed to boys and it was considered a disappointment. Princess and the Frog couldn't beat the popularity of The Chipmunks, and I think that was partially split down the middle with young boys. Frozen probably bridged the gap because of Olaf. I always personally liked the comedian voice sidekick characters the most, so I can see that. But I really want to see Disney have more female characters that aren't Princess, or at least Princesses in the sense of uncomfortably hot mid-20's looking teenagers. How about a lesbian character that's a super hero or something. Something actually interesting that won't just be turned into a fashion doll?

 

[beatnikchick300]

I'm mixed on the whole "making Elsa a lesbian" deal. On one hand, I would like more representation of LGBTQ+ characters in the media, including family media (being a queer woman myself). Given that Disney, for all its controversies, is known as one of the more LGBTQ+ friendly corporations in existence, I'd like to see them lead the way on that. On the other hand...I won't bother going into how much I dislike Elsa as a character (because I really don't have the energy to be bawled out over it all over again; heaven forbid someone express an opposing opinion ), but I'll just leave it at...I think Idina Menzel's RENT character is a better LGBTQ+ representation than Elsa would be. Plus, I don't feel that the writers could pull it off in a way that doesn't seem forced (to be honest, the handling of Anna's and Kristoff's heterosexual relationship in the first movie came off as clumsy and unnatural to me; at least couples like Belle and Beast, Tiana and Naveen, Aladdin and Jasmine, etc. have some chemistry in the short time they know each other).

Personally, I've become a fan of Big Hero 6, and have a head-canon that Gogo and Honey Lemon are a couple. So there.

 

[Drtooth]

I'd say turn Mereda from Brave into one but A) that's an obvious choice, B) certain film detractors already put that in a negative connotation, thus ruining it, and C) she kinda checked out one of the tributes at the end of the movie anyway.

I'd say Disney, at least their animators and animation staff, would love to make Elsa a lesbian, but from the business angle, they have a very difficult choice. And that, unfortunately, falls into their international distribution. I think what happened over the weekend, what we should remember is that homophobia isn't exclusively an American Red State Christian thing. Russia's dictator is a freaking Bond villain who believes that anything gay would be painfully corrupting of children, yet he has that creepy obsession with children. Not every country is as progressive with gay rights as we've recently become to an extent. Some are far more progressive, some are far, far, far less. And as hilariously flamboyant as France's anti-gay protesters are (and not even in a "methinks thou protest too much" way), this is where Disney has a hard decision. Consider the fact that the Warcraft movie bombed in the US, losing to a horror movie sequel, when it probably made back its budget in China in 3 days alone. Russia famously banned some Steven Universe episodes, but even the UK managed to cut off a couple, resulting in a HUGE internet backlash. Certain versions of the Amazing World of Gumball's episode "The Love" cut out that sort of thing too. But those are TV shows. Easily cut out without hurting the series' international reception. A movie? That's much, much different.

And this is a sequel to a movie that made such a crapload of money that it's almost impossible to say is overrated on some level. Unless Disney makes different versions of the movie for international release, making a character from a cash cow franchise a figure of controversy in certain countries would hurt their bottom line. Sure, Russia could dub Elsa's lover as a dude that just happens to look like a girl, or even (because I love making fun of Putinfinger) reedit the film so Elsa burns in the Inferno for daring to corrupt minors. But overall, a Frozen sequel is bound to print more money, so the choice is either do a service for the LGBTQ community or not alienate extremely conservative countries who would add to the pile of cash.

As for me, it's not that I'm not for it, but I want better representation by way of new characters and new concepts. Plus, considering the only Pixar film to feature humans as the stars that has any non-Cacausian leads in The Incredibles with Frozone. They have a lot more diversity to get through.