Interesting Gulf War News

[MuppetsRule]

I apologize if my last post may have seemed a little pointed or directed at Sidcrowe.

However, to paint with a broad brush that those that support the decision to go to war with Iraq are less-informed, less-caring, or less-understanding of the ramifications of that decison is arrogant and offensive. We all understand the horrors of war. I don't need to go to my local retirement village to talk to veterans to understand that (my grandfathers served during the World Wars and my father in the Korean War, my roommate served during the Gulf War). I cringe everytime I hear the term "shock and awe". Shocked and awed that mankind can find bigger and better ways to kill each other? I cried when they first broadcast the news of Baghdad being bombed. Just because someone supports the decision to invade Iraq does not make them less-caring. We all want peace but sometimes war is justified and necessary. Just like those opposed to the war, the supporters did their research and have drawn their own conclusions.

To this point this forum has been, for the most part, very informative on bringing up many valid points for both points of view. To characterize those that support the war as less-informed or less-caring however does little to further the debate. As does characterizing those that oppose the war as anti-American.


P.S. Comments such as "Oops...just tripped on an empty whiskey bottle. The Bush daughters must've left it behind" are cheap, partisan, and irrelevant to the current issue. Many of us during our college years emptied a few of those whiskey bottles you may have tripped on. I apologize for not being a neater drunk.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

Originally posted by CraigD
I find that comment pretty ridiculous and offensive to Japan. Bringing Pearl Harbour into this is lame.


Craig

Thank you. Tell that to whoever brought it up first (not me)!

 

[Fozzie Bear]

Originally posted by MuppetsRule
FozzieBear

The post in which you cited the Unicef articles is one of the best posts I have seen yet on this subject.

Thank you. Actually, I'm at work and a co-worker turned me onto those links and made me read them and suggested I post that information here.

 

[MuppetsRule]

Now the UN has become somewhat irrelevant.

I'm not so sure that the U.N. has become irrelevent but more so that it's purpose and mission redefined. It was formed in a much different era and it is nothing more now than a humanitarian group. Through it's own actions (not solely the U.S.) has it become irrelevent:

a) The U.S. so called "going it alone" has contributed to that

b) France going against the agreement at the end of the Gulf War and selling Iraq military parts and equipment

c) Russia (see above note about France) Even as early as last week they were selling them jamming equipment and had people in Iraq training on how to use it. (I'm sure there have been many more countries as well)

d) The U.N. passing a resolution authorizing any means necessary to disarm Iraq and then refusing to back it's own resolution .

e) Allowing Iraq and Libya to chair the committees on disarmament and human rights (if it can't police the activities within its own walls, how can it police the world?).

 

[Zack the Dog]

GPrime1

no offence taken at all, I understand your points and respect what you have to say about it, I live in buffalo not far from Cananda so that's why there was much of it. but all of the quotes were from the same people and it was no one in my family just to let you know. two were from a very closed minded person i work with, i was shocked when he said them, he's got the kind of adutidue i wouldn't want runing the goverment in the US. Another quote was off the radio, but that was a person in Cananda saying they would give their life.

It's very hard to belive how some people can be rude like that, (the thing that was said first) It just creates more hate, It's like the talk of "some" people protesting the war, but yet they are throwing glass bottles and hitting cops, how do you make peace like that? your in your own war then. not to say everyone is like that, there are many peaceful protest with very peaceful people out there who desrive respect and should be heard.This guy i work with is for war and wants more of it? I think he's talking out of the wrong cheeks.

Thank you for that information, i knew many of the kind things that have gone on with Cananda and the US during 9/11, i'm sorry that i upset you a little, because i was upset about hearing that stuff too, but seeing that you live in Cananda it would feel worse, let me just tell you that the person who said that isn't really going anywhere in life right now, i guess you can tell why. i don't mean to talk about him, but it was a very rude thing for him to say. thanks for understanding that i didn't mean to upset you.

Zachary,

 

[Fozzie Bear]

BTW, I love Canada and think boycotting France is stoopid!!

First of all, if the KKK does something and it is determined who did it, they are prosecuted. I hate the KKK (strange sounding, isn't it), and I hate people who hate others because they are different. Hating someone like Hitler, Saddam, Bin Laden is my choice and my opinion to get rid of people like them is my right to decide. Just like the anti-Bush sentiment I keep seeing as opposition to the war, that is your own opinion. And opinions are the point of my discussion in this thread right now.

Well, I think I'm through with this discussion.

Why? Quite honestly, what has it, or what will it have, achieved? Nothing anymore. All this has turned into is opinions for war or against Bush/Republicans.

I've heard the lambasting of calling others "childish" being slung around here, flame wars and insults have rose up, and I seriously doubt contacting each other away from the boards to dispute this matter is worthy of my time, though I feel I dealt with it diplomatically and this conversation should be kept in this thread.

Those who try to make light of the indepth conversation are taken way too seriously for it. I commented on ice cream as a joke of the names that begin with "I" and am fussed at for it. Luke and Sweetpantz (LOL!) was lightening the banter with talk of dancing plush and Muppet Movies. I don't think it's beyond any of us how serious the situation is. It's a very serious deal, and some of the allies are dying in the mix. People will die. That's the harsh reality of war.

I also am done with this conversation because the opposition of war is mainly anti-Bush, anti-Republican in manner. If you don't like a certain guy for president, then campaign for who you like better harder the next go 'round.

I suppose that the other thing I'm disappointed about is that, while we're only all sharing opinions, folks are getting seriously miffed about things and taking pot-shots at each other. Come on, gang. Who are we? Where are we? What is our purpose in all this? Does it matter? NO! President Bush is not going to see any of this conversation or listen to us. He has people 'qualified' for the positions to make the decisions, and he also has more information than we'll ever know about regarding the war.

It's all only opinion. How dare you get angry at someone else for it--dispute it with your own opinion, but certainly there are more diplomatic ways of arguing a point without flaming on someone.

I guess what it boils down to is that the personal attacks here are certainly unwarranted. We are a community of Muppet fans. We appreciate the meaning and quality of the Muppets and Jim Henson's Vision. At the same time, we will have our opinions about what we think is right, and where opinions are concerned there is (depending on the situation) no right or wrong. They are opinions, farts in the wind per se, and should be taken with a grain of salt.

If someone is offended by anything I've said so far then that's your problem. I'm only sharing my opinion. I let others share their opinions and I debate it with my own. What's the accomplishment then? Nothing. Where has anything anyone has said on this board gotten us? Nowhere, except made a few people angry.

Get over it. If you don't want to know what someone thinks, don't ask. If you don't want to have a conversation where you hear other people's opinions, then get out of it. It's a simple as that. We are all friends here, and I've always said it and still do, that I love everybody here (except for those folks who show up to cause trouble, ie: Spiderman and that other guy), and even them I don't dislike really. We're a family in this community, and should not let our opinions rip a seam in our blanket of security: each other.

Following my own advice and with boredom of the consistency of anger inducing opinions that will change nothing about the world, we'll ketchup in another thread.

The end.
FOZ

 

[frogboy4]

I'm disappointed that we can't just have a mature discussion of the issues. The thread started off that way, but went another. It is not the topic that is inappropriate - it's the lack of respect for other points of view. Once the topic is made personal, or criticisms are harshly pointed at individual members, it's gone over the line. Effective communication is a two way street. It has to work on both ends to be successful. Once again, I will not point this at any particular person, but can we please be productive in our comments? Thanx.

 

[sugarbritchez]

Bravo!

I could not agree more with Kev.



CASE CLOSED!

 

[Zack the Dog]

that I love everybody here (except for those folks who show up to cause trouble, ie: Spiderman and that other guy), and even them I don't dislike really.

That other guy is me right kevin? naw,j/k, yeah people here aren't trying to offend anyone, it is muppet central, nothing is published or will be on the news whats writen in here, I just don't want anyone to feel bad and leave MC.

GPrime1 and I just shared some stuff we have heard and did not direct it meanly, scarcastily, or overuling at the other person, and it was talked about in a good way.

Zack) Rowlf the i think it's fine if people want to use smileys in thier post, i don't think anyone would use them for bad reasons, muppet smileys are for good reasons only Dog.

 

[Drtooth]

I'm just going to end it right here saying that ALL the leaders in the world are complete **** heads!!!!!