In what universe are today's kids' shows too "sugarcoated"?

[JLG]

Yo, not to be contrary, but there's a common perception around here that's got me baffled. Here, and on tons of Gen X and Gen Y nostalgia websites, and on YouTube, and all over the place, 20somethings and 30somethings are always griping about how children's shows "these days" are so "antiseptic" and "sugarcoated" and "dumbed down" and that ultimate, overused boogeyman-word, "PC".

The reason all this has me scratching my head is, well....dang. I mean, what TV shows are you guys seeing? You can use a lot of different adjectives to describe modern kids' TV, depending on whether you think it's good or bad, but "sugarcoated" is definitely NOT one of them. It's the POLAR opposite.

When I watch kids' shows, I'm constantly impressed at how raunchy they are, how brash, how sarcastic, how multilayered, how cynical, and how very much a "bad influence on our children" they are.

Seriously. I don't know where all us 20-and-30-somethings on YouTube are getting this "sugarcoated" and "PC" stuff. (Not from Billy and Mandy, that's for sure.)

It's especially puzzling to me because by any objective standard, children's television in the 1970s and early 80s actually was sanitized and sugarcoated, to a much greater extent than anything today.

Naturally, there are exceptions to this, some of which actually are the reversal of the overall trend. Our good friend Sesame Street, for example, which used to be much more saucy and sly than the more warm n' fuzzy version of today. But that's the exception. And I don't deny that in some areas, the PC police do rear their unwelcome heads in ways they wouldn't have before, but much of the time you'd never know they even exist.

The only place I can agree with this kind of thing is PBS kids' shows, which indeed are more sanitized and "safe" than they used to be. But everywhere else? I ain't seein' it.

Just watch some kids' cartoons that are on lately. Some of what they get away with on there actually gives Famliy Guy a run for its money.

If anyone else gets me on this, or doesn't and wants to set me straight, just hit that "Submit Reply" button and fire away.

 

[CensoredAlso]

From what I've seen, the more cynical shows are for an older target age than the audience for Sesame Street. I think when people talk about the suger coated shows, they mean more the ones target to Pre-K age children like Dora and the Backyardagins (however you spell that heh).

For my part, I do notice the cynicism a little bit in shows like Fairly Odd Parents. I have mixed feelings about it. On one hand, I love kids shows that are a bit sly and edgy. But other times the show has a rather bleak "nothing is scared" attitude. It does bother me a bit because I wonder what affect that could have on kids. Though again, I feel it also has its good points; I talked with kids once who knew Jefferson was the author of the Declaration and that Washington "liked to chop wood" because of the Fairly Odd Parents. Lol

It's especially puzzling to me because by any objective standard, children's television in the 1970s and early 80s actually was sanitized and sugarcoated, to a much greater extent than anything today.

In regards to the quote above, I disagree. The older shows may have been a bit more innocent, but it's too easy to say they were sugarcoated. Many of them had mature, often dark messages, written in skillful creative ways. And they employed "adult" humor rather than "immature" humor.

Very interesting topic!

 

[Drtooth]

it depends. A lot of stuff they got away with in the golden age of anmiation (the 30's-50's), would never fly by todays standards. Looney Tunes and Tex Avery Shorts have to be completely cut down to fit in today's stadards. Even still, some cartoons that made their appearances on TV in the 50's were trimmed down significantly at that time. Some of the stuff is rediculous, like violence, smoking, and certain other themes, while some subject, like a blatant use of racial stereotypes (which were acceptable at the time) need to be cut out of children's viewing. (Us collectors know the difference, and actually laugh at how dumb these stereotypes were. Asians portrayed in WW2 cartoons and into the 60's and 70's are hillariously bad, if not maschocistic to watch today). Of course, I don't consider these quite "kid's entertainment."

Herald, you brang up Fairly Oddparents, which is a very good example. It does have a cynicism to it, but it also has heart (in most of the episodes I've seen anyway). Most of the plots involve Timmy getting revenge or taking the easy way out of something. But they always seem to get the better of him in the end, and he learns a valuable lesson. My favorite was during Channel Chasers which he felt his parents didn't love him, after taking the fall for Vicky. He wished to be in television and found out the hard truth that adults are either really idiotic, nasty, and most of the time not too helpful in these shows. But at the end, he realised his parents really did love him, and returned home at once.

of course, a similar concept was introduced in Japan in 1968, called "Doramon." This is even more cynical at points, since the kid in question (Nobita) is like the worst cross possible between Timmy and Charlie Brown-having the depression and greedy of both, and a couple of his friends don't really treat him too good either. He usually needs Doraemon to come up with a Gadget or soemthing, and things go downhill fast from there. The moral? Modern Technology does not solve problems. So a little Cynisism can teach a lesson. It depends on what kid gets the message, and which one misses it.

That said, I can't say all cartoons from the 80's are "sugar coated." In fact, I know of a Ducktales episode that deals with Suicide twice in it. It's the one where Launchpad gets conned by the Beagle Boys to think he's in a movie, but he's really stealing stuff and taking the heat for it. I think it's called Hero for Hire.
Case 1: On his Hero for Hire business, Launchpad can't find anyone that needs his help. His buddy Doofus looks at someone on the edge of a tall building, saying that that person needs his help. Launchpad runs up countless flights of stairs to reach the person in distress. When he gets to the top, he yells at the figure, "STOP! It's not worth it!"
The figure turns out to be a window washer, who replies "At 10 bucks an hour, it is." (or something to that extent.

Case 2: Launchpad is surrounded by police. The only way to escape is to jump into his Helicopter (or plane, I forget) and fake his own death. Seconds later, a firey crash is seen in the distance. Scrooge McDuck is horrified and lets out a cry for his (supposed) fallen friend. After the crowd disperses, Launchpad is hiding safely under a bridge, and replies "That Autopilot crashes better than I do."
(the ultimate payoff, Scrooge's line at the end, "Launchpad! He's alive. I'M GONNA KILL HIM!")

Now considering that's a Disney product, and it aired during the watchdog groups of the 80's, no one seemed to notice that. It should also be said, a suicide joke also takes place in Darkwing Duck episode "Days of Blunder" where an old man tries to throw himself off a bride, and Darkwing gets tangled into his rope (ties to a rock) after saving him.

 

[CensoredAlso]

Herald, you brang up Fairly Oddparents, which is a very good example. It does have a cynicism to it, but it also has heart (in most of the episodes I've seen anyway).

Absolutely, I'll take the opportunity to set the record straight. I do think FOP is a good kid's show (and for adults too). Timmy is occasionally selfish and greedy, but always learns his lesson in the end. And I have to say, it's always beatiful when he does. And it's also hilarious to witness the show's offbeat, cynical humor. I guess sometimes I'm concerned the same way I am with Family Guy (another good show). How much is too much sometimes? ::shrugs::

That said, I can't say all cartoons from the 80's are "sugar coated." In fact, I know of a Ducktales episode that deals with Suicide twice in it. Launchpad runs up countless flights of stairs to reach the person in distress. When he gets to the top, he yells at the figure, "STOP! It's not worth it!"

(the ultimate payoff, Scrooge's line at the end, "Launchpad! He's alive. I'M GONNA KILL HIM!")

Now considering that's a Disney product, and it aired during the watchdog groups of the 80's, no one seemed to notice that. It should also be said, a suicide joke also takes place in Darkwing Duck episode "Days of Blunder" where an old man tries to throw himself off a bride, and Darkwing gets tangled into his rope (ties to a rock) after saving him.

Lol, I didn't remember those episodes, that's great! Good old Ducktales and Darkwing! Again, I don't think the '80s cartoons were sugarcoated, just more innocent (yes even with suicide jokes, it's all about context! Hehe).

It's a little surprising that those jokes were ignored at the time, but I do think that was before things really started getting PC and everything became a target. Also, before all the school violence became prevelant. As usual, I say it's the parents' job to teach the kid morality, not the TV. Though, I have to say, the TV shows of the '70s and '80s did try their very best.

 

[Drtooth]

I do have my fair share of problems with certain 70's and 80's cartoons. Mainly the fact that (while I enjoy them) cartoons were mainly based off of video games, toys, and greeting card characters in the 80's, and Hanna Barbera's self plagiarism in the 70's. But the only ones I dare say were "Sugar coated" were things like Care Bears and Rainbow Brite.

 

[CensoredAlso]

double post, see below

 

[CensoredAlso]

But the only ones I dare say were "Sugar coated" were things like Care Bears and Rainbow Brite.

Ah, but even then, I say there were occasionally dark storylines! And I can't recall too many TV shows (kid or adult) to say "we care about everyone, even when they don't care about us" (Care Bears). Hehe, though I agree about the merchandising, the 80s was the greed decade after all!

 

[JLG]

[/quote]For my part, I do notice the cynicism a little bit in shows like Fairly Odd Parents. I have mixed feelings about it. On one hand, I love kids shows that are a bit sly and edgy. But other times the show has a rather bleak "nothing is scared" attitude. It does bother me a bit because I wonder what affect that could have on kids. Though again, I feel it also has its good points; I talked with kids once who knew Jefferson was the author of the Declaration and that Washington "liked to chop wood" because of the Fairly Odd Parents. Lol [/quote]


I have the same mixed reaction. One the one hand it's delightful to me that adults, after decades of having to dumb themselves down when writing for kids' shows, can often just let loose and be as smart, cynical, edgy, and silly as they want. And it contributes to the great childhood culture of subversiveness that drives us insane as adults but really is an essential part o' growing up. On the other hand, the "nothing is sacred" attitude, as you put it, could really be a bad thing in the end. It's not just kids' shows, it's the whole culture today. Nothing is sacred. Nothing at ALL. No matter what it is. Everything is there to be torn down. And while I can't help laughing at a lot of it, sometimes I think each time I die a little inside. What kind of effect does this have on children, when everything is a joke and nothing is sincere?


[/quote]In regards to the quote above, I disagree. The older shows may have been a bit more innocent, but it's too easy to say they were sugarcoated. Many of them had mature, often dark messages, written in skillful creative ways. And they employed "adult" humor rather than "immature" humor. [/quote]

I'm curious what shows you're referring to. My comment is mostly directed at most stuff from the 1970s through the early '80s---the years of Hannah-Barbara, Ruby-Spears, Filmation and other grindhouses that were stymied by dull-minded executives and busybody parent groups into producing simplistic, sanitized, largely interchangable fare that did little more than fill air time----and also painted into the corner of skimpy budgets, resulting in severely limited animation--which put a heavy clamp on the way stories could be told and presented. (another symptom of this---it was the 70s when stuff like old Warner Brothers cartoons began to be heavily censored for "violent" content. Most of those edited scemes are back in TV broadcasts today.)

As I said, there were exceptions, but I would think most of them would be found not on network shows or cartoons but on that quiet, eccentric little club known as the Public Broadcasting Service.

The early '80s was when things started improving. Someone was mentioning the Disney series---they were part of a significant turning point, both in writing and production values, which continued to mostly inch up and up through the 80s and 90s. Even if someone doesn't like many of the shows, they demonstrated much more aesthetic range than the old ones, and far fewer creative restrictions. Stories and gags can be written now that never could have gotten on the air 20 or 30 years ago.

20somethings nostalgic for the "innocence" of yesteryear aren't wrong, but they overlook that much of that innocence was the result of creative restrictions, not genuine intent. However, we may have gone too far the other way now....

 

[Ilikemuppets]

Ah, but even then, I say there were occasionally dark storylines! And I can't recall too many TV shows (kid or adult) to say "we care about everyone, even when they don't care about us" (Care Bears). Hehe, though I agree about the merchandising, the 80s was the greed decade after all!

I was thinking the same thing. There like the ultimate example of sugarcoated and greed television in a way.

 

[Drtooth]

I'm curious what shows you're referring to. My comment is mostly directed at most stuff from the 1970s through the early '80s---the years of Hannah-Barbara, Ruby-Spears, Filmation and other grindhouses that were stymied by dull-minded executives and busybody parent groups into producing simplistic, sanitized, largely interchangable fare that did little more than fill air time----and also painted into the corner of skimpy budgets, resulting in severely limited animation--which put a heavy clamp on the way stories could be told and presented. (another symptom of this---it was the 70s when stuff like old Warner Brothers cartoons began to be heavily censored for "violent" content. Most of those edited scemes are back in TV broadcasts today.)

Well, while you could say that about most of Filmation's shows, I wouldn't say it about Fat Albert. While some of the messages they touched on were soft (like personal hygine and stealing) they later went onto more serious subjects. They even did an episode about pornography (not kidding... the episode is even called "soft Core"), teen runnaways, and a bunch of other heavy handed subjects. Usually these were for syndication, not network. They even had a Scared Straight episode where the gang learned about prison. And they were saying that if you go to prison, you might get raped. Which is seriously a hard subject for a kid's show.