In what universe are today's kids' shows too "sugarcoated"?

[CensoredAlso]

I mean...what's next? Team Henson allowing it to occur with The Muppets, Fraggles, or what have you? I certainly hope that is not the case.

I guess it depends on your opinon. I feel I've already seen that with some recent Muppet films. But I don't blame any one person. I just think it's hard to repeat a classic.

 

[Luke]

I really wouldn't agree that anything above pre-school is sugarcoated, worse even. I think the only big difference is we used to have the gun use, and probably less storyline. I think there's a lot less diversity now, we used to have some shows that didn't depend on licensing tie-ins but now its essential because of the lack of TV money. I'm impressed that they are better now at building up the promotion around shows what with all the different mediums they can use although back in the day you felt more hyped up about certain big stand-out shows that were the big classics.

 

[Drtooth]

I really wouldn't agree that anything above pre-school is sugarcoated, worse even.

Preschool shows are the worst. They all seem to follow the same model as Blues Clues. The Loud and slow speak and interactivity. I mean, is that beneficial? I doubt it.

Look at Muppet babies. Clearly that was meant for younger audiences, but they were treated as a younger audience, not as kids that need to learn at a snail's pace. They had a pretty good amount of peril to them (and indeed the sound track had quite a few ominous, yet cartoony, tracks to them). And guess what? it didn't frighten anyone. It didn't bother anyone. now, we're so afraid of mising out on a small group that we alienate thwe whole. At least with Preschool shows.

As for the others? Wanna know why we don't have any hits? Because no one wants to try. No one wants to lose money. They just retread the same popular movements and make weak programs based on them. Or take a familiar set of characters (that's why the lackluster group of Disney's animated TV programs are all based off of movies). Kid's TV is unprofitable, unless you have a toy based program on. Blame that on an FCC ruling. They limit the junk food commercials on children's TV. While that sounds good, there are 2 reasons why it isn't. one, that's half the money right there. Secondly, it was attatched to a ruling that let multiple TV stations get owned by one corporation. So basically it was added on just to appease people, so they don't bother to find the sinnester purpose behind it.

 

[Luke]

As for the others? Wanna know why we don't have any hits? Because no one wants to try. No one wants to lose money. They just retread the same popular movements and make weak programs based on them. Or take a familiar set of characters (that's why the lackluster group of Disney's animated TV programs are all based off of movies). Kid's TV is unprofitable, unless you have a toy based program on. Blame that on an FCC ruling. They limit the junk food commercials on children's TV. While that sounds good, there are 2 reasons why it isn't. one, that's half the money right there. Secondly, it was attatched to a ruling that let multiple TV stations get owned by one corporation. So basically it was added on just to appease people, so they don't bother to find the sinnester purpose behind it.

I would totally agree there. The ban on sweets and fast food advertising has made things even worse in the UK, being a smaller market. It's more or less completely obliterated the kids TV market and now all we have are the American imports, although our pre-school isnt that bad as it seems to sell well to the USA and Europe. It's at the point where a show isn't commisioned unless it appeals to all markets worldwide, and has good licensing potential for the merchandise. Not a bad idea to get as much money as possible from these things, it's a business after all, but there are certain things, like childrens drama for instance, that don't always work that well in other markets or have licensing potential yet have been big hit shows in the past. It's really sad.

 

[Drtooth]

The ban on sweets and fast food advertising has made things even worse in the UK, being a smaller market. It's more or less completely obliterated the kids TV market and now all we have are the American imports, although our pre-school isnt that bad as it seems to sell well to the USA and Europe. It's at the point where a show isn't commisioned unless it appeals to all markets worldwide, and has good licensing potential for the merchandise.

Yeah. i heard that (as well as censorship laws) are killing the Children's Tv market over there. I will say, at least your ban on advertising had good intentions. ours was a blinder for a bill to let media conglomerates buy up networks. And yet, no one ever says anything in response to the multiple ads for unnecissary drugs during adult TV shows.

I mean, a lot of UK shows, you guys keep for yourselves anyway, right? The only imports from the UK I know that aired in the US were Dangermouse, Duckula, and Bananaman.

Anyway, i don;t think this is going to solve any problems vis a vis health, just creat new problems for up and coming animators. There are decreasing markets for animation, no thanks in part to Disney's Tween-centric line up. Everyone feels they should copy the success of others and not try with something more original.

It took CBS a while to break free from it's Nick Jr. Rerun fest. They have a couple original shows on Saturdays now, but that's about it. It's a giant step in the right direction... and had Kid's Wb not been killed by CBS's greedy hands in the CW network, it would have been a good sign.

As it is, we only have a Saturday line up to satiate the FCC ruling that makes networks run a certain amount of "educational" programming per week. And by educational, they mean the show has to cram morals down our throats. So either all new shows are corrupted with preachiness (Sushi pack for example, had morals bookended into the show after it was develeoped) or we get stuck with cheap reruns of junk.

 

[frogboy4]

Sugar-Filled, but not Sugar-Coated

It is important to make the distinction among projects. There are cartoons and programs meant for pre-schoolers, ones intended for kids, ones for tweens, ones aimed at teens/young adults, ones aimed at adults without crude humor, ones aimed at adults that include crude humor and ones for general audiences. And, of course, just because a project is made to target a particular group does not mean it is or isn't enjoyed by that group or others. Wheeew. This statement has no politically correct intent, just trying to clear-up what tends to get lumped together.

The Simpsons emerged decades ago in animation for older audiences. Many groups found it crude until many years passed and South Park came along. This program was begging to be hated by critics and struck quite a chord with many people. Now, it seems, the genie is out of the bottle and almost anything goes in the genre. However, with so much cynicism in these projects I feel audiences are in need of a refreshing break from that. The Muppet characters (while not animated) have always been able to create a nice balance even though some fans would like to see them move closer to one extreme or the other.

It's not that I feel today's cartoons for kids are sugar-coated, rather they are sugar filled. They are crass and don't offer much in the way of enlightenment. It's fine for some shows to be that way, but it appears in too many for my taste. Spongebob kinda got it right, but my sister won't let her kids watch that. The Batman (however you feel about this incarnation) does follow a certain pattern of ethics along with its action. Well, so those are a couple of good examples of profitable cartoons that offer something.

Just my buck-o-five.

 

[Luke]

I mean, a lot of UK shows, you guys keep for yourselves anyway, right? The only imports from the UK I know that aired in the US were Dangermouse, Duckula, and Bananaman.

That's exactly how it was, but isn't now. We used to have a lot of our own stuff and the best of the USA's but even though we have more kids channels now they are things like CN, Nick, Disney so mainly use imports, and because all our main "network" style channels have cut back on their kids output because of the advertising ban and the BBC are just doing the bare minimum they have to do (similar to the FCC requirements you mentioned) it means the big bucks and big viewer numbers are not there for anything major within UK only. I think we've been exporting stuff like Teletubbies, Hoobs, Tweenies, Angelina Ballerina, Bob The Builder so it's becoming more of a neccesity, and most of it has to be pretty sugar-coated.

There doesn't seem to be a major market for UK traditional animation, although i think we are probably a major force in stop motion with a lot of the kids shows we do have using it. There is a website - www.savekidstv.org.uk that is campaigning about whats going on here. It seems pretty bad in the USA but at least the markets bigger and also the international market for your stuff is huge, and you own most of the channels anyway.

 

[wwfpooh]

But at least YOUR Boomerang shows classics--including Fraggle Rock--sometimes, whilst we in the US get jack, nevermind that you guys allow Jetix to be its own station, whilst our own Toon Disney--meant to show classic Disney cartoons--is being usurped by Jetix and non Disney stuff.

 

[Drtooth]

That's exactly how it was, but isn't now. We used to have a lot of our own stuff and the best of the USA's but even though we have more kids channels now they are things like CN, Nick, Disney so mainly use imports, and because all our main "network" style channels have cut back on their kids output because of the advertising ban and the BBC are just doing the bare minimum they have to do (similar to the FCC requirements you mentioned) it means the big bucks and big viewer numbers are not there for anything major within UK only. I think we've been exporting stuff like Teletubbies, Hoobs, Tweenies, Angelina Ballerina, Bob The Builder so it's becoming more of a neccesity, and most of it has to be pretty sugar-coated.

Err... Teletubbies seemed like it was coated with a simliar looking substance, but definately not sugar...

There doesn't seem to be a major market for UK traditional animation, although i think we are probably a major force in stop motion with a lot of the kids shows we do have using it. There is a website - www.savekidstv.org.uk that is campaigning about whats going on here. It seems pretty bad in the USA but at least the markets bigger and also the international market for your stuff is huge, and you own most of the channels anyway.

I will say, if there is one thing that you brits do great, it's stop motion. I can't get enough of that sort of thing. heck, I even watch Bob the Builder on occasion. Other than features and shorts, I don't see too much else of it imported.

As for the US... yes, we have a market for it. But sadly, it seems like it's waning. And the most animated programs that get developed are on cable (we no longer have weekday children's line ups on Syndication). And what's left isn't stuff to write home about. Ironically, there's more a market for adult cartoons- which blows my mind 8 ways from sunday, lemme tell you. One of our major networks (kids WB) decided to call it quits and sold their time slot to the competition (who struggles for third place every Saturday). You clearly got it worse than us, though.

But the shows that are on today are pretty week. And we've been getting a lot of French and Italian Imports lately, which wouldn't be so bad, if they were at least good (It's naive to think there's a market for Lucky Luke in the states). Best bet for up and coming animators is the already over saturated internet market.

 

[wwfpooh]

One of our major networks (kids WB) decided to call it quits and sold their time slot to the competition (who struggles for third place every Saturday).

Ever since Poke'mon took it over, Kids WB! wasn't itself to me, hence part of probably why it pretty much ended.