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If Jim hadn't died in 1990

dwayne1115

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Well don't get me wrong I love the fact that Jim loved to be creative. I think in a lot of ways creativity is dead in today's Hollywood,with some rare exceptoions. Hearing your alls comments though I'm not going back on what I said,but I am changing it some. Jim was very talented and the work he did not only with the Muppets but on his fantisy movies where outstanding. Sometimes thought we can get to many irons in the fire and I think that may have happend to Jim.

I was also thinking that in todays time movies like Dark Cristal and Laberath would have done very well. they could have had there own playing cards (Like Pokeimon) very deataild video games,and a whole lot more. The teens of today would be more open to both movies and I think that when the Power of the Dark Cristal does come out it will do very well.

One last thought: I think something that will always make me a little confused is why JHC sold the Muppets and SS Muppets. They where really what started the comany and really in my eyes what would help the comapny grow now. Yes they are doing a lot of differnt things but why would you give up the thing that really started it all?
 

RedPiggy

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Yeah, I think that was the problem with the fantasy movies: bad timing. I don't think they would've been the same without Jim, so it was important that he did those movies while he was still around. However, there are some zeitgeists and marketing techniques (like trading cards and such) that would have helped those movies had they come out more recently.

Also, I remember thinking Dark Crystal and Labyrinth were really strange and bizarre when I was a kid. I appreciate them far more now that I'm an adult. Those two movies, in my opinion, are just movies you have to grow into ... which doesn't help the bottom line when it's in theaters ... but they still have the capacity to be popular.

About the sales: I get how everyone felt that they didn't have enough hours in the day to deal with all the franchises/projects. However, the Henson company is divided into different sub-areas, right? So why not have a Muppet and SS sub-division? Because the performers, perhaps, were too spread thin. Though, I don't see how selling the franchises helps that problem. The focus should have been on training and developing replacements so the core staff didn't have to feel ... uh ... attached by the arm, so to speak.
 

unclematt

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I had a very short and good chat with a customer the other day about this same thought. We were talking about Will Ferel, and how when he does a comody it is really great and very funny. Then he will go and do a drama and it stinks. The cutsmoer slams her hand on the counter and says "I just wish people would make up there mind what they want to be!" I had to agree with her, and state i knew what she was talking about. I think that Jim should have focased more on the Muppets and making them even more better and things like that. Just like I think JHC Should do to.
While reading your posts I am reminded of an old Wayne Gretzky quote.

"You miss 100% of the shots you never take."

Jim took chances and strived on taking chances. He took a chance with the Muppets and had great success. The success of the Muppets gave him opportunities to go out a take bigger chances. Jim was a risk taker and strived on new ideas and new thoughts. SS = risk = success. FR = risk = success. What makes you think that Jim should have stuck with just the Muppets? He had many projects that were wonderful successes. Just because he had some less successful projects towards the end of his career does not mean that he should of just stuck with the Muppets. Honestly if we look at it, SS came first so if Jim didn't take a chance we may never have had the Muppets. Heck, if Jim didn't take a chance on S&F we may have never had anything. So I will say that I disagree with you. Not only do I disagree with you but I could not be more firm in my beliefs that you are absolutely wrong.
 

frogboy4

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Why the Muppets are at Disney and Henson is Fraggles & Fantasy:

In various articles before Jim Henson's death he admitted to selling the Muppets (in particular) to Disney because he felt that the mouse could take good care of Kermit and the gang while Jim focused on other types of projects. Sure, he'd come back to the Muppets - always, but he didn't have to give the brand such constant attention that it deserved. He was getting old; feeling his age and there was so much more he wanted to do. :sleep:

The rub is that Disney, while they wanted the Muppets, wanted Jim more. When he died mid-merger Disney's price dropped dramatically. The family had to hold the company together. Frank Oz wanted to go out on his own and focus on directing non-puppet projects, Brian wanted to develop his own properties and there was a void where Jim Henson's direction should be.

After much moving about with the Muppets, they finally arrived back at Disney - where I believe (like Jim) they truly belong. Time will tell. I'm not that excited about mouse ownership, but that appears to be exactly what it is - ownership. The studio will hire-out talent to write and direct these pieces while doing what they do best...product marketing, exposure and financial support. That's the goal anyway.

JHC without Jim's leadership was never equipped to deal with such a big brand as the Muppets even though it was built by them. That's a hard truth to swallow, but a fairly accurate one. Sesame Street was always to be under the CTW (now SW) banner. It works best as its own property and Jim seemed to know that. They were never up for Disney's pudgy four-fingered hands. :stick_out_tongue:

Fraggle Rock is something the Henson Company kept and it's something they can grow in house. But see, the reason why the Dark Crystal sequel and the Fraggle Rock movie are taking so long is that Henson is still a very small company. If the Muppets were still owned by them we would have a lot less variety, a lot less projects and a lot less Muppets too! The Jim Henson Company is in many ways a small-scale independent film company with big ideas. :scary:
 

CensoredAlso

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Just wanted to say I enjoyed Labyrinth from the very beginning. I do speculate though that the reason it wasn't commerically successful was that people weren't sure what the intended audience was. Some people may have thought it was a Fantasy for children and turned away. But then others thought it was a bit too grown up for children.
 

RedPiggy

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I think The Muppets would be around more if he was still around plus the popularity would still be alive. Sesame Street would still have funny bits on there that adults can enjoy. Plus I think that Elmo would be a little more limmited since Jim didn't really believe in lead characters (well, from what I've heard).

And I think Disney would have more respect for The Muppets if Jim was still around. Totally!
I tend to disagree. Jim Henson was already trying to shove off Kermit & co over to the Mouse before he croaked (sorry!). I also don't see how he would have kept SS adult-friendly. It's not like he owned the thing. Elmo might still have been an attention hog. Piggy already was. Jim was thinking of Dinosaurs, where another Clash character became an attention hog (though, strangely, in my opinion, a more tolerable one than Elmo). Life was "movin' right along" ... with or without him. Maybe a couple of details would have changed, maybe not.

And I also don't think Disney would care either way. They slap the Mouse, the Frog, the Princess, or the Fairy on a plastic lunchbox and call it a day. I was always amazed that the Hensons believed Disney took care of its own characters. In what way? Besides the cool House of Mouse ... we get the Princess Line of merchandise ... and now Fairies? Disney doesn't treat its own characters as though they were real ... unlike the Muppets. When's the last time you saw Snow White or Scar or Buzz on a talk show? Thought so. All I ever see are some toys, sheets, and spots on parades. True, it's been years since I've been to Walt Disney World ... but photo-ops don't strike me as the same thing. The closest thing I've seen to awesome is that Muppet Labs thing on youtube. THAT is how you make your characters look alive ... not just some silent cosplayer who'll wave at your camera.

Of course, I still want to see a huge staged Kingdom Hearts battle at Disney World. Bring that level of coolness and I'll forget how we were treated the last time we were there and I'll get in that park.
 

Colbynfriends

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Of course, I still want to see a huge staged Kingdom Hearts battle at Disney World.
That would be awsome (i am a big KH fan)

If Jim didn't die in 1990, I belive that the muppets would have had a really big revival by now. i also feel that more classic characters would have made a reaperance in the newer shows, and movies such as making the Electric Mayhem the Muppets Tonight house band.
 
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