"If I ran the Muppets" thread. Post YOUR good ideas HERE!

[spcglider]

To continue my thought above:

When I referred to the Muppets as "broad but not very deep" I was alluding to the following, in which I personally find great validity.

Scott McCloud, in "Understanding Comics", talks at length about what he calls "the masking effect". This is basically a character mechanism that allows an audience member to "assume" the role of that character. I'm not speaking literally, of course.

It is a method of immersion for the viewer/reader. Surely we've all identified with a favorite Muppet character or, at least, wished we could be more like Rowlf or Kermit or Piggy or even Gonzo? Its a natural, emotionally driven response in humans... to desire to be more like that which we admire.

In comic book characters, especially heroes, writers have traditionally kept them "blank slates". Meaning that they don't burden them with overwhelming personal hang-ups or emotional baggage or strongly held beliefs beyond those necessary to their function as a hero. (A notable exception to this is Spiderman, but his character baggage hasn't significantly changed in the last 30 years) Why? Well, lets say Superman suddenly came out as a racist bigot. What would happen? On a primal level, a major number of readers would no longer be able to identify with the character. They would no longer feel the desire to put that character on as a "mask" and vicariously experience the adventure through his eyes. So, the character necessarily remains, to a degree, "shallow". Too much in the way of polarizing attitude alienates audience. The writer understands that, in order for people to WANT to identify with him, the character MUST remain partially "empty" so that the reader can "fill" the character with themsleves. Bring along their OWN personal baggage to make the process more comfortable.

We know that, on the whole, the Muppet characters are good at heart, realtively innocent, and positive. But we don't know, say, what Kermit's religion is. We don't know the private thoughts of how Fozzie views his co-workers. We don't know the seminal influence that causes Gonzo to be sexually attracted to chickens. And frankly, we don't want to know. If we did, it might change our view of the character in a way that would alienate us.

For those of you who know StarWars take, for example, the character of Boba Fett. Throughout episodes 3,4,5, he was a character dripping in mystique. He was, beyond a doubt, the most popular Star Wars character. He was mysterious. He was deadly. He would kick your butt and not bat an eyelash (if he even had eyes under that groovy helmet).
But when the "prequels" came out, we were informed that this mysterious character was really nothing more than an angry clone boy who saw a Jedi kill his progenitor. Mystique ruined. His popularity dropped through the floor and fans everywhere started to emulate the NEW mysterious character...Jango Fett. After we knew everything about Boba Fett, there was no room left in the character for "masking".

Any time we feel empathy with Fozzie when Statler & Waldorf are raking him over the comedy coals, every time we feel the emotion that Kermit experiences when he sings "Bein' Green", every time we wish we could be pushing the plunger when Crazy Harry pops his head through the curtain and blasts something to smithereens... its an example of masking.

That having been said, if the Muppets are "deep" as characters, I would submit that it is because WE provide that depth with our selves via this "masking effect". I also submit that the genius (conscious or otherwise) of the original performers and writers who created the characters maintained that "shallow roominess" in all the Muppets so we'd be able to do just that.

Crazy, huh?

-Gordon

 

[dwayne1115]

wow that was deep

 

[dabauckham]

I love Scott McCloud's "Understanding Comics" - great read. I haven't read it in a while, so you've inspired me to go back to it. Check it out, everyone! You can find it at many libraries.

Gordon, your argument makes a lot of sense. There does seem to need to be a certain level of unrevealed information in order for the Muppets to retain their universal appeal. This is the same reason that some very popular music groups, such as U2 and Coldplay often keep their lyrics intentionally vague. This way more people can relate to them and interpret them in their own way. There is a certain power to vagueness, and a much longer shelf-life. It's kinda counterintuitive, but it's true. So in a way, it's not so much that the Muppets aren't deep, as it is that they are non-specific enough in certain psychological ways to remain appealing to all. Although, maybe that really is the same thing....

The Boba Fett example is absolutely 100% spot-on. He's way cooler in the original trilogy.

 

[spcglider]

Thanks! Yeah... I spend a lot of time pondering this stuff. I like to write and it's always a good thing to understand the mechanics of storytelling and character creation if you want to write well.

And so I have a very hard time NOT applying that to things that I like and examining how they make use of the "rules".

Have any of you ever noticed that "Gilligan's Island" is just a modern Commedia Del Arte' in sitcom form? Look at the characters.. they're all there. Columbina, Harlequino, Pantalone, the Doctor, etc...

-G

 

[spcglider]

Anyhow, who's got MORE good ideas?

Remember, its all about what YOU would do if you were top dawg at Muppet Holding Company and Iger had given you carte blanche to come up with new ways or new plans for marketing the Muppets property.

Here's a good example of thinking outside the room that the table is sittng in with a box on it: When the Muppet Movie first premiered, the Muppets actually held a classic Hollywood-style party... hosted by THE MUPPETS themselves. Quite literally, the performers were running around all night long popping up in specially prepared areas with the characters... ad libbing and writing up material on the spot. They interviewed famous guests about their experiences with the Muppets and they filmed it all. The special was shown on national TV as "The Muppets Go Hollywood". And it was pretty darned cool, as I recall (from my youth). That assessment wasn't necessarily shared by the Muppeteers... since they ran themselves ragged all night long! And Jerry Juhl told me once that he wasn't very thrilled with the whole affair since it didn't allow him to frame the Muppets in their best light as a writer.

But at least it's a crazy idea that hadn't been tried before then.

That's the type of thinking (though not necessarily the type of promotion) that the Muppets need now.

Just trying to inspire!

-Gordon

 

[spcglider]

Awww...come on folks! I know you have been thinking about this! Pipe up!

-Gordon

 

[spcglider]

Okay, here's another one.

If the "re-introduction to younger audiences" is deemed an absolute by the powers that be, then I suggest that the Muppets hit hard and hit fast in the very center of the market that is populated by exactly that demographic (and several age levels within that demographic).

Video Games.

We've been playing with DVD technology here in our sister company Canopy Games. As well as flirting with platform system programming.

So develop video games that introduce young audiences to the characters and their universe. It has to be done carefully. Its not just Mario Brothers with puppets.

Get a license out there for a Muppet SCENE-IT game. Trivia about Muppets with plenty of video clips from past Muppet works as well as hosting by Pepe and Gonzo or whoever.

Get the Muppets into adventure games within the Muppet universe (several ideas have been mentioned in this and other threads). Stuff kids can grab onto and learn to love the characters and maybe... just maybe... seek out MORE Muppet stuff to watch.

I know.. the idea's been mentioned before, but it is a good one... so I'm tossing it out there again.

-G

 

[Ilikemuppets]

A SCENE-IT game! Now that's an idea!

I like that one in gereral and not just for a younger audience, either!

 

[spcglider]

Hmmm... all out of good ideas folks?

C'mon! There's gotta be MORE!!!

Rah Rah !!

-Gordon

 

[minor muppetz]

How about some Pokemon-style Muppet games for Nintendo DS? There were two Austin Powers games for Game Boy Color which had different main game plots (though I could be wrong... I've only played one of the two) but apparantly had some activities that people could play with others using a link cable (I think fans could send messages as well).

Anyway, there could be four games, for Kermit, Fozzie, Miss Piggy, and Gonzo. Each game could have main games starring the main characetrs being promoted, and also have mini-games which people could play with others using the link cables. The Mupets could battle in fun games. Maybe Kermit's game could take place in the swamp, Miss Piggy's game could be a Pigs in Space game, and so on.

Or they could be like the game Looney Tunes Collector: Alert! In that game, players start as Bugs Bunny, and then they can eventually "collect" other characters. Players could switch to many of the characters they collect, but some characters who get collected can't be playable (they only appear in some special screens that show who all has been collected). Players collect them either after battling them as bosses or after rescuing them. And I think they can be traded via link cable. Maybe there could be a few different games, with the same plots but different main playable characters and an alternate choice of who can be played in each game. And then the characetrs exclusive to certain games could be traded.

An obvious choice would be a Kermit the Frog editon and a Miss Piggy edition. Maybe they can both start out at different areas, and maybe they can appear in both games, only the other one would have to be rescued by the other in the respective game so that they can be traded to the other versions (though this might cause a problem if both people are playing as the same character). I'm not sure what would/ could be done about that.

Like in the Looney Tunes game, each character would have their own special moves. Kermit would jump high and/ or swim, Miss Piggy would karate chop opponents, Animal would bite and/ or attack others, Lew Zeland would use his boomerang fish... (it's amazing... I've had this idea since 2001, but have only now had the idea of a miss Piggy version. Until a few minutes ago, I'd only thought about there being a Kermit edition).