Henson issues statement about Chick-Fila-A

[Pinkflower7783]

"Please watch out for each other and love and forgive everybody. It’s a good life, enjoy it."- Jim Henson.

 

[Clayton King]

I'm going to tread carefully here, but I feel this needs to be said.

People who, because of their religious beliefs, feel that homosexual behavior is in appropriate do not necessarily do so because they are close-minded, mean and hateful. If you are a Christian, you look to the Bible as your "guide book" for how to live a God-pleasing life. Although different denominations have different practices and forms, Christian religions consider the Bible to be God's word. (If you are already arguing with me in your head--stop. So far, I've said nothing that is not factually correct, and I am not advancing an opinion--I am explaining a position.) The Bible--for those who are Christians--is not a suggestion book, it is the reference that they look to for guidance, and it is the Bible, not individuals, which takes a stand on homosexual behavior.

While I believe that it is offensive to make un-asked for judgments about people's personal choices, I believe it is equally offensive to suggest that people who are simply reading--in clear, unambiguous terms--what their faith has to say about a topic and believing it are necessarily mean and vicious and hateful. "Hating" someone's religious practice is not more enlightened than "hating" someone's sexual practice--they are both wrong.

What many people fail to understand is that no one is supposed to take the guidebook--the Bible--and beat people about the head and shoulders with it. It is a personal user's manual, and people only get a personal user's manual that applies to them when they voluntarily decide to become a believer/follower of a particular religious practice. If you don't want to follow the rules of that particular religious (and religion is really, really NOT supposed to be all about the rules), then no one should compel you to sign up. But if you do sign up to follow a particular denomination, you are then bound by those expectations. To say that you adhere to a group of beliefs and then flout your defiance of one or all of them is the epitome of hypocrisy.

To say that you are a vegetarian but you eat beef, pork and poutry is ludicrous, and everyone who heard you say that would probably give you the "fish eye." (Pun intended--trying to lighten the mood, here.) But people do voluntarily affiliate themselves with religious groups and then try to pick and choose which rules they wish to follow all the time. And before you get all huffy, I'm not talking about "big" sins. Name me one Christian who does not gossip (which the Bible says is a sin) and I'll let them start throwing rocks at me.

What I always take comfort in (and I would like to point out that I have NOT stated my particular religious views, so if you are trying to pigeonhole me into some group you "hate" you can stop now) is that--whether you are part of a religious group or not, God does not call anyone to be the morals police on other people. God calls Christians to be accountable to each other in love and faithfulness, and God calls everybody else to come to God Godself, to have that personal relationship and get that personal user's manual. But you don't have to. If you do make that choice to have that personal relationship with God, then you and God work out what is expected of you through God's revelation. (Just for the record, however, I don't think God every said, "I know I said gossip is wrong, but you can gossip because you're special," but that's your business, not anyone else.)

While no one has the right to judge another person's relationship with God, people are going to make judgements about one another. It is human nature. We are prone to criticize others looks, ideas, fashion, partner choices, talent and abilities. Tell me you've never criticized anyone else's behavior, or judged that they were acting like an idiot over something. And guess what? Not everyone is going to think you're brilliant or clever or stunning or...gasp!...right all the time. And here's another bubble-burster: People don't need your permission to make judgment calls about you. Not everyone is going to like you or what you do. People are allowed to disagree with you and your position, and to decide what they think about what you do, and nothing--not laws or parades or anything else--can change that. And the fact that they disagree with you and think you shouldn't, for example, wear brown shoes with your seersucker suit, does not make them automatically hateful. It makes them opinionated--like everyone else. And it makes them human. In your quest to be self-righteous, do not trample on the rights of others.

I am always surprised by the logic that would accuse--in often vicious terms--a person or group of being hateful and rude by being hateful and rude about that person or group. Good manners are the hallmark of a civilized society, and I hope I have exercised mine here today.

This is a very well-thought out response, and one with which I mostly agree. I am gay. I am also a Christian. I am also a moderate person whose social stances lean to the left, and whose fiscal stances lean to the right. Some in the gay community find this difficult to deal with. Some in the conservative Christian ranks find this equally difficult...

So (I think) I understand both sides of the argument. The problem I have is NOT with with president of CFA no agreeing with marriage equality or gay rights. I certainly have no problem with CFA closing on Sundays - something I actually wish many companies would do. I DO, however, have a problem when any company uses its money to condemn or remove civil rights from any group. Organizations who are supported by CFA and which intentionally spread misinformation are wrong. This is where the hate part comes in.

Having an opinion about something (anything) and yes, even hating that something, is very different from working diligently to create more hate and spread more misinformation.

 

[Clayton King]

Excuse me? I have so much I want to say back to you, but thats just going to delve into an argument. I do believe in Jesus. And I believe that people who judge you for your beliefs are not following in the ways of Jesus. I realize a few bad apples doesn't apply to every single person of a certain religion. You know, being catholic, I get a lot of flack. Its like Catholics are easy targets. but you know what? I don't get offended when my religion in general is attacked. If you know you do not fit in with whatever mold someone is generalizing a religion to be, there is no reason to go and flame the person. Just shrug it off.

Edit: Jamie ziffled me

Forgive my analogy, but I think Christianity is like pie. There are many different flavors. But ultimately, whether pecan, blueberry or cherry, it's still a pie.

As a Christian, I welcome all denominations. I don't necessarily understand them all; how could I? I was raised and taught as a Presbyterian. That, in and of itself, doesn't invalidate other denominations. It simply narrows the lense through which I view other denominations.

All this said, on the subject of gay rights, and marriage quality in particular, one issue that many Christians (conservative, right wing ones) seem to intentionally overlook is that the desire for gay persons to marry is actually a very conservative one. If you can forgot religion, the bible, the rhetoric, etc., for just a moment, you see that there is no rule or law forcing anyone to get married - gay or straight. Marriage is an act of commitment to a single person for life. So when members of the gay community say that want to get married, they are actually supporting a conservative notion.

Sgt Floyd, I replied to your post (as opposed to so many others) because I don't like the idea of any denomination (in your case, Catholic) to be or feel attacked. At some point, Christian is Christian, and I feel we should all be able to live together - not necessarily in harmony, but certainly in civility.

 

[jvcarroll]

We live in a cable news climate that tells us we have to pick a side on every issue and fight to make everybody else follow only that one viewpoint. It's right or wrong, winning or losing. I believe the world is much more colorful than that.

We can all live in harmony with people who hold other beliefs. I learned that from the Muppets, Sesame Street and Fraggle Rock and that's why it makes sense that JHC pulled their business from Chick-Fil-A.

I'm glad this whole thing happened to bring the issue to the forefront, but now that it has, there's little for me to add on the subject that I haven't already said.

 

[Hubert]

Actually, Paul was married, as were most of the disciples. To be in the position that Paul was in in the church at that time, it was necessary for him to be married. When Paul was telling Christians not to marry, he was referring to the fact that many believed that when Jesus returned it would be a week from next Tuesday, not years and year and even centuries later. So Paul was really saying, "Don't run out and do anything in haste because the end times are coming."

Really? I thought that Paul wasn't married, as he started off persecuting Christians, then began to write letters and preach the Gospel...and he was also referencing the fact that many people were abusing their marriages and that it is also better for those people to not get married, too.

 

[jvcarroll]

Really? I thought that Paul wasn't married, as he started off persecuting Christians, then began to write letters and preach the Gospel...and he was also referencing the fact that many people were abusing their marriages and that it is also better for those people to not get married, too.

I agree. This sounds like an assumption to me. The same sort of assumption could be made for Jesus himself under the criteria mentioned. This is the sort of thing that always worries me about the Bible. Sometime information is created when it really isn't there.

 

[Vincent L]

I prefer business stuff be separated with personal stuff. And can we please not have an argument about religion?

 

[CensoredAlso]

Yeah. That's Paul. I also found Luke 21:34, which would be Jesus's words in that instance.

Gotcha. See that I like more because it gets to the heart of how excessive drinking can ruin your life. It explains why, whereas Paul often just sounds like a scolding parent going "it's a sin; nevermind why!", lol.

But that's another topic, hehe.

 

[CensoredAlso]

Really? I thought that Paul wasn't married, as he started off persecuting Christians, then began to write letters and preach the Gospel...and he was also referencing the fact that many people were abusing their marriages and that it is also better for those people to not get married, too.

He could have been widower or something. The Bible doesn't really present a full biography of a lot of figures, lol. Just mainly focuses on their words which I guess are the most important.

 

[bandit]

You know, I have to say that scrolling back and reading all of these exchanges really brought some excellent points to light. Being bi myself, I suppose I don't really approve of CFA's lobbying to stamp out gay rights. As a general rule, I don't like to think of any group of people not having the same rights as anybody else. So I applaud the Henson Company's statement and stance in all of this.
Having said that, I think something can be said for CFA, though. Even if I don't agree with this particular stance, it is somewhat admirable to believe in something so profoundly to take a solid stance on it. EVEN though I don't agree with their stance, I an give them credit to lending a little integrity for what it is they believe in. So often in politics people pussyfoot around and bend this way or that way as the tides turn. So, in a sense, the guy backing all of this has stuck to his guns.
I can say the same for the Jim Henson company. Sure there will be some pot stirring with people who are a little more conservative. They will want politics to be left entirely out of entertainment and they will question the values of the people who put out programming that is often aimed at children and families. But they too stuck to their guns in this stance. Inclusion and diversity has always been something Jim Henson himself has believed in and it's nice to see that those same values have been passed along to his children and those who run his company.

Which brings me to US here. Just look at how many different people come onto this forum and share in their love of Jim Henson's creations. The man was a genius and he had a way of bringing people from all over the map together. Here we see people of different ages and different faiths and socioeconomic strattas...people from different countries and sometimes I think even PLANETS in some cases.....but we're all HERE together because we DO have similarities. We CAN all agree on some things. We can enjoy one another's company and respect the differences because, ultimately, they don't have to matter or wedge themselves between us. We CAN all still have fun together and we CAN be completely polar opposites and still be respectful, friendly, laugh and have a great time.

So really, what's what I'm seeing here and taking away from all of this rabble.