Goths, Punks, Freaks, and Muppets - Is it all Very Wrong?

[Jackie]

We're all different. That makes the world interesting

 

[beaker]

wow, now were getting interesting...

cantus:And thank you Cory, for not bashing me upon my leave. It was an interesting debate for a while, and then it got personal, and yadda yadda yadda...anyway, thanks. And as I usually say when I am just done:
<<<<

Well, its funny...oddly enuff some of my fave people on MC Ive gotten into the biggest psuedo personal debates with as of late.

cantus:>>can ya say it with me muuutuuuaalllll respeecctt. Its more than that with me and Cory, being I consider him a friend on the board and I highly value his imput on any subject brought to the table. <<<

Why thank you mr. cantus! I believe you exhibit very similair
thoughts and ideas and enthusiasm I did when I first came on MC, so I see a lot of that in the new people on here. I agree though, sometimes arguments are bound to happen...you have
kids debating wiht twenties people debating with older folks...yet we all find common ground^_^

 

[kansasteen14]

joggy,that was a really good point.when an agreesive drummer is wearing an Animal shirt he is sorta saying he was inspired by that annd everyone sorry if you thought I was acting immature.

 

[beaker]

I too have a preety good grasp on the evolvution of modern music subcultures...


If you REALLY look at it, the real "Gothic" movement was at it's height in '83-'84 with people listening to darker edgier music than your typical "New Wave."<<<

The traditional goth thing of course was a breakway from punk...the early 80's uk bat cave scene inspired most of the traditional look, also credited to people like Siouxsie Sioux and company.(Siouxsie and the Banshees, whom I saw like 8 years ago in sf when i was in that whole scene) By the late 80's through early 80's virtually anyone who listened to Sisters of Mercy, the Cure, Smiths, Depeche Mode, or typically moody british mod rock and dressed slightly askew could have been deemed 'goth'. Now the 90's is a whole other thing...as the word 'goth' soon got adopted by the mainstream, and shifted onto any kid who listened to nine inch nails, marilyn manson,
etc and was deemed a freak. So by 1997, a word that used to be defined as that 'weird kid at school who listened to british mod music and wrote poetry in 1987' was somehow now in the eyes of the media 'that disturbed kid who listened to manson and threatened to shoot people at school'. Though of course that wasnt the case...

Theres still an active intelligent goth community, though I find the whole label silly. Most have moved way from 12" records and bauhaus onto the online realm and electronic music


>>>Then rap influenced dance music when young black DJs in Detroit and Chicago started getting into the electronic rhythms of "Kraftwerk." "House" was born. There was also a popular street music now called "Electro" or "Electrofunk" that was the original soundtrack for Breakdancing.<<<

Theres a great documentray called Modulations about this. Bands like Kraftwerk, and their Brooklyn brethren Africa Bambaata
segweyed ont he east coast into what would typically be described as 'house', or new wave/funk spedup with breakbeats.

Not long after, Electronic based music split in Europe into two or more fractions. You had your lighter "Techno" and heavier "Industrial" a lot of the people into "Gothic" music transitioned into "Industrial."<<<

industrial being of course what most goth people still listen to today, cutting edge harsher electronic dance like skinny puppy, front line assembly, front 242, ministry, etc. Techno if youll recall, has a very mainstream push in 1997 under the word 'electronica'(still heard in car commercials) with bands like underworld, fsol, moby, prodigy, aphex twin, crystal method, etc

>>>"Techno" fractioned off into all of the Electronic genres that exist today. "Trance", "Drum & Bass", "Happy Hardcore", "Electronica" etc. etc. etc.<<<

the late 90's is when a lot of these genres were pushed into the mainstream and lost steam. Everything from gabber(violent techno) and jungle/dnb was being used in movies and advertising. A documentary called Metalheadz documents that progression. Most of all this stuff is UK based.


IMHO, Industrial stopped evolving. There are a handful of groups that are putting out some good stuff, but I wouldn't say they are advancing the genre much<<<

while industrial died off some years ago, the HUGE thing now is oddly enuff an underground genre that has imbraced goths, industrial fans, ravers, electronic music fans, etc alike. Its huge from everything from raves, clubs, etc..generally termed 'ebm' or modern 'synthpop' or the new industrial, its a fusion of trance, 80's synthpop, and industrial...bands like vnv nation, apoptygma berzerk, and covenant play to thousands at outdoor european festivals and are getting huge here. Imagine a very futuristic version of depeche mode, with intelligent lyrics, some orchestral
elements, etc.





"The Club Kids" didn't really fit into a nationwide movement per se. They were a small group of people club owners, promoters and DJs who created a circus like atmosphere.<<<

typical club kid image as seen on the mid 90's talk shows: think platforms, with ski goggles, funky hair and tight plastic shirts.


>>>I 100% agree with earlier statements made by individuals about individualism being branded and processed now. Hot Topic is the perfect example.<<<

Thank you! That was my one big argument I made a few posts back. Where in ya used to have to go up and down haight street in sf to find odd clothing, now its prepackaged for mass consumption.


>>>Japanese kids are creating the most wonderful clothes right now. There is a segment of students that customize all their own clothes. They use combinations of new and vintage clothes and create a whole new look. It turns into fashion for fashion's sake. I'm hoping that American kids catch on to this. <<<

Japanese goth/visual-kei/cyberpunk fashion is the edgiest thing right now. Like something out of a william gibson novel or an anime. very cool stuff.

You think Marilyn Manson dresses out there, ya should see some of the visual kei/jpop artists out there from Japan! I'd like to see that style, which to me is the most advanced and coolest of all the subculture styles come stateside.

 

[WemblinKate]

I'm not exactly sure what my opinion is on this subject. Merely because, that's where I get most of my Muppet Merchandise. If you haven't noticed, the shirts are really cool. I'm not a goth, or a punk teenager. I have my own style which is pretty much a good mix of it all. I simply wear my GAP jeans and my Fraggle Rocker shirt to school.

And you know what? I'm just glad that someone's putting muppet stuff out there. You can't good muppet merchandise or at least clothing from a lot of places these days and I was really glad they were distributing this.

I always get really nice comments from my school mates when I wear my Fraggle Shirts, or Muppets, or Labyrinth. They become nystalgic (i don't know if I spelled that right) and like to talk to me about it for a little while.

And who knows if the punks or goths really are fans of the muppets? Ack, who knows anything really? Alright, there's my 2 cents.

-Wemblin' Kate