For Crying Out Loud, What is Wrong With You People?

[Drtooth]

I'm just saying, what do we tell the families who will continue to be abused?

"Congratulations... your son didn't die of multiple machine gun shots in a vain attempt to slow down the spread of something that we let happen."

Beaker's right about that... there's something VERY fishy going on vis a vis the drug cartels. Not saying we have to legalize it, but... to defeat a nemesis that only gets stronger through battle, giving up confounds them, causing a huge defeat. We need a way to do that.

Addiction is addiction in any form, and any form can be just as deadly or destructive. It's not just that Prohibition didn't work, Prohibition created violence and crime and people were STILL drinking.

Like Fearless Leader in Bullwinkle said "Rules only keep honest people out... if you're a crook, you sneak in anyway."

 

[CensoredAlso]

"Congratulations... your son didn't die of multiple machine gun shots in a vain attempt to slow down the spread of something that we let happen."

I mean what will we say to the addict's families. As in, "I'm sorry your husband/wife has yet again hit your children or stolen your money to get his/her fix again, but we've given up. Good luck!"

 

[Drtooth]

I mean what will we say to the addict's families. As in, "I'm sorry your husband/wife has yet again hit your children or stolen your money to get his/her fix again, but we've given up. Good luck!"

Illegal or legal, they'll continue to do that. We need some sort of legislation that punishes offenses at that level. Blowing a fortune of tax money and wasting so many human lives just so the cartel and the disenchanted youths they recruit (that turn them into violent street thugs) can just increase the price to make up for what they lost doesn't solve the problem. It just makes said addict steal more to afford it.

But again, Beaker brings up the point I've been making. The US LOVES to say how sanctimonious and super heroic they are on the surface trying to stop drugs, terrorism, etc... but under that cover we make deals WITH the very same countries that bring us this misery. Slave labor from drug mule parts of South America, slave labor form human rights violating countries, oil from the very same nations that want to blow us up... Maybe if we turned out backs on these places, our money doesn't wind up going to support the very thing we throw a crap load of tax payer money to pretend to defeat it.

I mean, how much money is really saved by printing DVD's in Mexico? It's all just greedy companies tax dodging.

 

[beaker]

Illegal or legal, they'll continue to do that. We need some sort of legislation that punishes offenses at that level. Blowing a fortune of tax money and wasting so many human lives just so the cartel and the disenchanted youths they recruit (that turn them into violent street thugs) can just increase the price to make up for what they lost doesn't solve the problem. It just makes said addict steal more to afford it.

But again, Beaker brings up the point I've been making. The US LOVES to say how sanctimonious and super heroic they are on the surface trying to stop drugs, terrorism, etc... but under that cover we make deals WITH the very same countries that bring us this misery. Slave labor from drug mule parts of South America, slave labor form human rights violating countries, oil from the very same nations that want to blow us up... Maybe if we turned out backs on these places, our money doesn't wind up going to support the very thing we throw a crap load of tax payer money to pretend to defeat it.

I mean, how much money is really saved by printing DVD's in Mexico? It's all just greedy companies tax dodging.

The US has always been two faced. It's a 100000% FACT that the CIA trafficked large amounts of cocaine from south America and heroin from Soviet Afghanistan in the early to mid 1980's in order to fund clandestine warfare and operations after the Senate officially cut off funding. Yet, all we heard from Nancy Reagan was "just say no". Many black communities were destroyed because of the CIA helping Nicuraguan drug traffickers filling the streets with cheap crack cocaine, tar heroin, etc.

The US government says how it "is against the Islamic terrorists and extremists"....REALLY? Well Clinton sure as heck was caught financing and supporting the Taliban in 1996, as well as al Qaeda in Bosnia. And Bush even had the Taliban to the White House and gave them $47 million a few months before 9/11. Even worse, the US government knew Saudi Arabia and elements of the Pakistani Intelligence Services helped orchestrate and finance September 11th...but not only did they cover that up, they then rewarded them with tens of billions and went to war against nations who had nothing to do with 9/11. Oh and then it lied about air quality around ground zero and blocked medical coverage for dying rescue workers.

Next we saw the US government get hundreds of thousands of innocent Muslims maimed and killed in half a dozen conflicts under Bush and Obama...you know, cuz "the terrorists hate our freedom"(even tho its the government stripping our freedom away"

With drugs...the US governments leaves the border wide open, ignores the ultra violent drug cartels spreading their disease in many US cities, and then blunders up these attempts to help the Mexican government. I understand the need for sting operations, but they go way to far. It's like when the FBI stages fake Islamic terror plots, sometimes they go to far in "sting entrapment" cases.

But when it comes to drugs...the fact we send non violent drug users to PRISON rather than mandatory drug treatment shows how BACKWARDS and degenerate American society is. No wonder Europe laughs at us(not that they're perfect either)

 

[CensoredAlso]

But when it comes to drugs...the fact we send non violent drug users to PRISON rather than mandatory drug treatment shows how BACKWARDS and degenerate American society is. No wonder Europe laughs at us(not that they're perfect either)

It's more for the sake of innocent people that addicts are put away. Addicts are capable of hurting people in the most devastating and often deadly ways, even if they don't mean to.

People go into drug treatment centers all the time, over and over again in fact because relapses are very common. So it's not like that's a guarantee either. How long do we keep them there? If we let them leave that means they're back on the streets and at risk of hurting others.

 

[Drtooth]

It's more for the sake of innocent people that addicts are put away. Addicts are capable of hurting people in the most devastating and often deadly ways, even if they don't mean to.

Addicts are very selfish. Let's put it that way. They clearly don't care that it's illegal, they don't care about the gang violence the incites from disenchanted kids falling into drug dealership... they certainly don't care if it's illegal. Punishing them won't help, rehab only helps a percentage of the time... there are just some people you just can't break through to. That's the sad thing that addiction does. They turn into lost causes ONLY because they refuse to change themselves.

But overcrowding prisons, tossing a fortune of tax payer money to catch the non-violent addicts while letting gang members off (but it doesn't matter anyway, cause they'll just be a gang in prison and become even more violent when they come out), flubbing up, nay, intentionally flubbing up deflating these cartels and over all making business deals with these countries doesn't solve anything.

I'm far more concerned about the family members of innocent kids (and I literally mean kids) who get shot up by gang violence than I am about some selfish snots trying to get a cheap high. One town here is completely ravaged by gang violence and no matter what we do, we just can't catch them and break them up. Of course, drugs have only a fraction to do with these cases... but no one should be gunned down for no apparent reason.

But overall, if we want to defeat the cartels and the Middle East bankrollers, we need outside the box thinking. Come up with alternative fuels so we can stop relying on their oil. Take our jobs back from Mexico at least. China would be very difficult at this point, but that needs to happen too. I swear we need legislation to tax the heck out of these companies, but they'll spend three times that much lobbying to kill that.

It is a completely rotten apple.

 

[beaker]

It's more for the sake of innocent people that addicts are put away. Addicts are capable of hurting people in the most devastating and often deadly ways, even if they don't mean to.

People go into drug treatment centers all the time, over and over again in fact because relapses are very common. So it's not like that's a guarantee either. How long do we keep them there? If we let them leave that means they're back on the streets and at risk of hurting others.

You're progressive in some ways...but ye have a long way to go Again, I said non violent drug offenders and mandatory extensive drug treatment. Not hey, release everyone and let whatever happens happens.

I do have a problem with how all these rapist, murderers and pedos keep doing these horrible things after having been parolled or slapped on the wrist. Im a strong believer in the death penalty when guilt has been proven without any doubt, including death sentences for minors.

But when it comes to people who were caught selling pot, or have an addiction to heroin or whatever...put em through strong rehibilitation...if they continue to not want it, then look into sentencing.

 

[CensoredAlso]

You're progressive in some ways...but ye have a long way to go

Im a strong believer in the death penalty when guilt has been proven without any doubt, including death sentences for minors.

Um well I'm staunchly against the death penalty and for that many people criticize me for being too progressive.

Again, I said non violent drug offenders

What about an accident through drug fueled negligence? Plus you can't guarantee an addict could never become violent (though of course you can't arrest someone before they do something).

 

[beaker]

I'm far more concerned about the family members of innocent kids (and I literally mean kids) who get shot up by gang violence than I am about some selfish snots trying to get a cheap high. One town here is completely ravaged by gang violence and no matter what we do, we just can't catch them and break them up. Of course, drugs have only a fraction to do with these cases... but no one should be gunned down for no apparent reason.

But overall, if we want to defeat the cartels and the Middle East bankrollers, we need outside the box thinking. Come up with alternative fuels so we can stop relying on their oil. Take our jobs back from Mexico at least. China would be very difficult at this point, but that needs to happen too. I swear we need legislation to tax the heck out of these companies, but they'll spend three times that much lobbying to kill that.

It is a completely rotten apple.

Yeah I mean Im a total tree hugging liberal, but I dont think America is hardcore enough on inner city criminal gang activity. I dont care what color or nationality they are, I dont care if people think its racist...but these black, hispanic, south east asian and poor white gangs are terrorizing their own people. Not some fantasy Islamic boogeyman in a cave or some 'commie socialist agenda', but criminal thugs who should be locked up or put down. People talk about 'the man', 'they', 'the government'. In a lot of cases its willing male thugs in drug cartels and gangs that make the decision to terrorize whole cities.

Guiliani cleaned up Time Square, I say screw the liberal Occupy kids and go hardcore with law enforcement or even martial law type checkpoints if that's what it takes. I would have liked to have seen all the money wasted on pointless wars overseas where we didnt belong, and spent to stop the REAL domestic terror threat here in America.

And China...they got all the 9/11 WTC steel, got all the oil and minerals in our wars, helped arm and fund the Darfur genocide for big fat oil contracts. They hold America to a lot of debt, and make all the crap we spend.

**** I wouldnt put it past China to finance a terror group to stage an attack and then profit from the ensuing war. China, Saudi Arabia, and even at times Israel...these seem like the real interests the US government bows to. Not the interest of the public

 

[CensoredAlso]

Guiliani cleaned up Time Square, I say screw the liberal Occupy kids and go hardcore with law enforcement or even martial law type checkpoints if that's what it takes.

Yeah Guiliani cleaned up the tourist attraction but the other New York boroughs remain in dire need. Law enforcement does need to be worked on, but the underlying cause of the problem is poverty, which is caused by "the man."

criminal thugs who should be locked up or put down

I'm the kind of progressive that says the death penalty has no place in a civilized country.