• Welcome to the Muppet Central Forum!
    You are viewing our forum as a guest. Join our free community to post topics and start private conversations. Please contact us if you need help.
  • 50th Anniversary Celebration
    Read fan reactions and let us know thoughts on Sesame Street's 50th anniversary special. The show debuts on PBS next Sunday at 7|6c and an official DVD is on the way.
  • 50 Years and Counting
    Read our review and discuss with fans the highly anticipated Sesame Street "50 Years and Counting" DVD set from Shout Factory featuring over five hours of beloved moments.
  • "Muppets Now" announced for Disney+
    It's finally official. A new, unscripted short-form series, “Muppets Now”, is coming to Disney+ in 2020. Let us know your thoughts on the Muppets big announcement.
  • The Dark Crystal: "Age of Resistance"
    After a 36 year wait, return to the great conjunction. The Dark Crystal "Age of Resistance" is a mesmerizing and beautiful prequel series now on Netflix. Renew your essence today.
  • Music is Everywhere
    Muppet Central Radio is now on TorontoCast, TuneIn and Apple Music. Listen to Muppet music 24/7 wherever you go with TuneIn and Apple apps and devices.

Episode info from trusted sources

minor muppetz

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2005
Messages
14,996
Reaction score
2,319
Well, Muppet Wiki now has full guides for every season 12 episode.

It looks like only one Warren Wolf segment aired in season 12. If not for that one season 12 press release listing him among many new characters for the season I probably wouldn't care so much. I wonder if there were more that just didn't air (or didn't air in season 12).

Of course when it comes to characters advertised as new for the twelfth season, I've seen that Countess Dahling von Dahling and Masha only appear in three episodes (not counting that "When the Countess Counts" song), Elmo only appears by name once this season (though he does appear as a random monster in many inserts), Pearl seems to only appear in the four Deena and Pearl segments, and it looks like Buster is only in three inserts from this season. And there are no more Leslie Mostly appearances than what has been listed all year (if Michael Earl continued or they thought she was worth recasting I wonder if she would have appeared in a street scene in a later season).

It is interesting, when Norman Stiles was interviewed for The Muppet Mindset, he talked about Deena and was thinking she was only in three or four segments. I believe this was before all those episodes from the first three weeks of the season leaked online, I thought it was odd she'd only be in so few episodes (thinking all those advertised "new season 12 characters" showed up fairly frequently that season), and while a number of them were in very few episodes this season, Deena did appear quite a bit (could Stiles have been mistaking her for Pearl, even though I can't imagine the writers thinking Pearl is the annoying one?), in street scenes from 24 episodes (three from season 11, 21 from season 12).

Aside from the season 12 guides, I've been noticing first appearances added for quite a few segments I've been curious on the first appearance of, many from seasons 14 and 15. How exciting!
 

minor muppetz

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2005
Messages
14,996
Reaction score
2,319
Looking at new episode pages in the last few days, it's been discovered that there was a recurring Kermit the Frog sketch/identity called "Kermit the Frog, Smart Person" (was that an actual title card or did he refer to himself that way in dialogue?), with Kermit helping a character (which seems to have always been one of the main cast; one of them is Bob as a character, the other doesn't say but probably was). These segments sound intriguing. Since they (most likely all) feature the human cast, I don't expect any of us to find copies via international versions of the show anytime soon.

Saw a guide for an interesting-sounding episode in which Bert decides to leave Ernie. It's neat to see Ernie involved in the street plot, though he only gets one scene and it's in the apartment, while Bert gets a lot of solo scenes on the street. I wonder if the Ernie part was taped on a day when Jim Henson was doing multiple Ernie segments in the apartment, or if he was there for taping sessions for the rest of the episode.

The wiki has also found an episode with the sketch where Ernie and Bert see Mr. Snuffleupagus, I again forget which episode but it's from season 14, just three seasons before Snuffy was revealed to be real (I had always assumed it was from the 1970s). Fans have remembered it as Ernie seeing Snuffy, Bert thinking he was imagining, then seeing Snuffy and Ernie thinking Bert was imagining, while the wiki description says that Big Bird invites them to meet Snuffy with no mention of Ernie seeing Snuffy (which could just be obmitted from the description, or the fans could be remembering wrong, or - as has been proven a few times - they could have changed it from the scripts before airing).

I often look at Scarecroe's main wiki page which notes interesting stuff about the scripts. One thing I've seen noted is that some scripts put a numbering code by the sketches (with the season number and then some reference number), some list an episode number for the first season, some only list the first appearances of sketches with Muppets and cast while others list the first appearances of all segments and some don't list first episode numbers at all. I'd been assuming it was at random, but recently I saw it say that the scripts for seasons 1-11 only list first appearances of Muppet/cast bits (would that also include guest star bits without either?), season 12-15 scripts list first episode appearances of all inserts, and scripts since season 16 only list segments with a production number/code (do season 1-15 scripts list a code in addition to episode numbers?). This does make sense, if they'd just changed the style guide for scripts (most script pages I've seen, showing sketch listings, are from after season 16, where they just listed production numbers; the only earlier script pages I've seen are for the first two pages of the first episode, with part of the pages blocked, and an early draft of episode 1257, I thought the lack of production numbers was due to it being an early draft). I had noticed for a while the wiki had been missing first appearances for quite a few segments from the 1970s and 1980s that had appeared in 1990s episodes (which I thought would have listed first appearances), and I'd especially noticed it was "EKA" for a lot of late-1980s segments where I was curious about the debut seasons, but now it all makes sense.
 

minor muppetz

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2005
Messages
14,996
Reaction score
2,319
A lot of interesting stuff about episode 1045. It switches the main plot from maybe a half-hour of The Count's show (which seems like it could have easily been cut into a 30 minute home video compilation back in the days when Sesame Street videos were 30 minutes long - and I'm only guessing on the length of that and the introduced inserts here), and THEN the plot switches to a goodbye story for Buffy and her family, with them leaving Sesame Street for the first time since their introduction on the show (returning for lengthy visits each season). Two important-sounding plots in one episode.

I know there are episodes that have number/letter segments that don't represent the sponsor, but this must have the most non-sponsor-number segments of any episode (I wonder how they decided on 11 for the sponsor).

Another episode with full episode information now is episode 1052, in which Big Bird hosts an amateur show. It's interesting how in the old days, when there were episodes involving a lot of singing on the street, they seemed to have most of the street story in one big grouping. Episode 1045 does show a lot of inserts before The Count's plot is over, but they're all introduced within that plot and we just get one segment before getting back to the radio show. The amateur show has them pretty much focusing on that when the plot begins (only this is an episode where the street plot does not begin until maybe halfway through the episode). Episode 900 has all of its plot in just two segments, with one long segment at the start and a closing tag before the credits roll. The expanded televised versions of Sing-Along go a long time before getting to segments that are not on the video (though I recently found that Sing-Along was produced/released as a home video first and then expanded as an episode later). And there's an episode from season 31 or 32 where Zoe wants to be Suzie Kabloozie, with Suzie Kabloozie segments being the only inserts shown until the plot is over halfway through the episode.

In other Muppet Wiki/trusted sources news, the wiki now knows the first appearance of every Monsterpiece Theater segment.
 

minor muppetz

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2005
Messages
14,996
Reaction score
2,319
Lately the wiki has added guides for a number of character debuts who I never really thought about having proper introduction episodes, like Dexter (actually, I mistakenly thought the episode where he talks about juggling to Gordon was his debut for some reason), Leo the Party Monster, and Ruby.

At this point, I'm starting to think that if a character was introduced after the 1970s ended, they had their own introduction episode. Well, characters who were normally seen in street scenes, there are some characters introduced in the '80s and later who were mainly featured in inserts who didn't have a proper introduction episode. I'll have to think of what other '80s characters do not yet have a known introduction (I don't think I know Sonny Friendley's intro, or Hoots the Owl's).

Dexter's debut was interesting, various round objects get stolen, purple fur is seen at the scene of the crime, as I was reading the guide I was wondering who it was, without thinking it'd be him. If that episode was done today, they'd probably have him still some of Cookie Monster's cookies.

The Teeny Little Super Guy page now lists earliest known appearances (probably the firsts) for season 15 episodes, both EKAs of which were known to have been included in some animation festivals. I should have known those might be the first two segments (of course I look at later appearances of those sketches and they still list the previous EKAs as opposed to those episodes; I should probably update the EKA for later episodes if I can).
 

MikaelaMuppet

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2013
Messages
9,818
Reaction score
2,611
Episode 2223 is now complete.

Just ignore this part though.

This episode guide has been compiled from incomplete video material.
 

minor muppetz

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2005
Messages
14,996
Reaction score
2,319
Learned that episode 915 has a lot of involvement from Jim Henson, performing Kermit, Ernie, and Guy Smiley on the street.

It's the first appearance of the Anything in the World Prize Game, which I think appeared in later episodes. I wonder if this would count as a segment that was part of a street story (though there's not really a plot and the street scenes don't seem to have any connection) that became an insert later (do the scripts note whether street inserts were meant to be street inserts?). I recently started a sandbox page on inserts that started out as part of the street story and wonder if this would count. And while the Guy Smiley page doesn't currently list episodic appearances like a lot of characters who appeared sporadically in street scenes, I wonder if this episode would qualify.

Also interesting that the episode has two Guy Smiley game show sketches - The aforementioned Anything in the World Prize Game and a What's My Part? sketch. Weird. Though in the last year I have seen a number of guides (mainly from early 1980s episodes) that feature two News segments (in most cases one of the two is either one with Suzanne Farrell or with Dr. Nobel Price, in fact one of these episodes with two news segments included both of them).
 

minor muppetz

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2005
Messages
14,996
Reaction score
2,319
The wiki finally has a guide for episode 1911, which provides context for a clip I've been curious about since seeing it in Stars and Street Forever, where Oscar spends time in a giant trash can: https://muppet.fandom.com/wiki/Episode_1911

When I started reading it and saw that the trash can belongs to Snuffy (also, he seriously brought the trash can along after taking out the trash because he was so excited to play with Big Bird, instead of just putting it down?), I wondered if this would be the episode where Oscar met Snuffy, but I overlooked the fact that this episode is from season 15 instead of 16.
 

minor muppetz

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2005
Messages
14,996
Reaction score
2,319
Between this and the "where are all these classic Sesame Street episodes coming from?" thread, I wonder if we should just have an all-purpose thread on old Sesame Street episodes (for things that might not warrant their own thread). I started this thread because I wanted to talk about various episodes that the wiki now has full pages for (but might not have felt would be worth creating pages for every time a new page was guided or info on a rare segment was found/detailed), in addition to making some observations on things I heard about the scripts having. A thread about every possible episode/insert would probably fulfill the same purpose.

Actually, after every episode is given a guide, I'd like to see some kind of article about it, at The Muppet Mindset or Tough Pigs or wherever, with observations and notes on surprises and stuff. I feel like the three users with access to those trusted sources would be the best to do such an article. I've mentioned a lot that I've learned from the guides and elsewhere, and mentioned in this thread and other places quite a few things I was surprised to learn (and cool/odd things I learned about regarding the scripts). I've seen Scott note quite a few observations and stuff on the wiki (in his "to do" list and a number of sandbox pages).

On a slightly unrelated note, it's interesting how the sandbox page for unidentified Sesame Street segments has evolved. When it was started, I assumed it was just for segments listed in scripts that were hard to figure out what they were (if they'd been seen by the contributors), then as more guides were made and we learned more details on certain segments it seems like it was a place to list inserts that the wiki didn't have images from, even if plot details were known. And maybe that was always the purpose and I misunderstood when it was started. Now that the wiki is getting more and more rare images, I wonder how big that page will be this time next year.
 

YellowYahooey

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2019
Messages
211
Reaction score
52
I did discover an episode guide for the Season 10 episode in which Mr. Hooper acquires his college diploma, and it listed the sponsors as "C, W, 2". When I saw this particular episode during the Canadian broadcasts back in 1980, I saw the sponsored number as 4, not 2. Maybe this was not the final script, and it would make sense, since there was an "A for Agua" speech balloon segment, which would be out of place for an episode with the letters C and W as sponsors.

I also recall there being a Season 14 episode which had a letter W Typewriter segment, despite that W was not one of the sponsors in the episode. I know one of the sponsors was G, and I believe it aired on a Thursday, and I believe I saw it in 1983, but I do know the sponsors were not "G, P, 5", even though I do remember seeing a Thursday episode with those sponsors that season.

I recall, going by past memories, sponsors for some of the episodes that aired between 1982 and 1984, but Muppet Wiki has a policy that memories do not serve as reliable sources on that site.

Among the sponsors I recall seeing are:

#1724 (December 16, 1982): H, L, 8
#1725 (December 17, 1982): M, T, 9
#1799 (March 31, 1983): B, I, 10
#1801 (April 4, 1983): R, Y, 12
#1803 (April 6, 1983): D, H, 8
#1804 (April 7, 1983): H, K, 9
#1805 (April 8, 1983): D, K, 10
#1837 (November 22, 1983): C, K, 3
#1838 (November 23, 1983): S, W, 4
#1860 (December 23, 1983): E, S, 4
#1863 (December 28, 1983): C, D, 11
#1864 (December 29, 1983): D, P, 12
#1865 (December 30, 1983): B, K, 2
#1904 (February 23, 1984): J, T, 4
#1905 (February 24, 1984): O, T, 5
#1907 (February 28, 1984): I, R, 6
#1908 (February 29, 1984): I, L, 7
#1938 (April 11, 1984): O, S, 3
#1940 (April 13, 1984): M, N, 4
#1941 (April 16, 1984): Q, Y, 10
#1945 (April 20, 1984): G, O, 2
 
Last edited:
Top