Elmo's Popularity?

[mr3urious]

I, too, like Elmo; just not his commercialism.

I don't blame Kevin Clash for this, since he's a very talented puppeteer; I blame the directors and writers.

 

[Drtooth]

BOOBAH! AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH! the apocalypse has started.... I rather watch Tellytubbies and Barny in a row...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJvHrx1X-Gk

Two things... I tend to count Boohbah and Teletubbies as the same thing. Sort of like how I consider Dora, Mickey's Club House and Super Why the same thing. And Boohbah was an incredible flop anyway. There is something truly terrible out there on the horizon... something we can't possibly imagine or comprehend.

what do you think of Yo Gabba Gabba? I dont know if I like it or not, but this song is just funny and catchy...

I didn't like it at first, but I'm willing to give it a shot for 3 reasons:

1- one of the members of Devo came up with the idea.

2- Either one or both of the Brothers Chaps contributed an animated segment for one episode (i.e. the 2 brothers that brough us Homestarrunner.com... the ONLY web toon I watch regularly)

and 3- I'm digging the idea that the characters are patterned after 1970's Japanese live action preschool shows. The characters actually look sorta cool.

I gotta see this Wubzy thing, though...

I don't blame Kevin Clash for this, since he's a very talented puppeteer; I blame the directors and writers.

I can't even blame them. The character hit a LOT bigger than anyone thought it would, and it affected the show both positively (attention and merchandising- which goes back to other SW projects) and negatively (making him an extreme focus). The writers and directors keep him in because he's what keeps kids watching for whatever reason.

Thing that bugs me is that Kevin IS a talented puppeteer. He;s one of my favorites (though it's hard to have a least favorite, now that I think about it)... but as far as I'm concerned, Elmo keeps him occupied, and you rarely see any of his other great characters... sure, occasionally Hoots the Owl. But I really want to see Clifford to some extent in a new Muppet project.

I agree and think the same thing. I would dislike any character who would get a spot like that

I think that the idea is bad enough... even if it were another character, even a one I like, the idea seems repetitive and pointless. Again, Abby's flying school... Murray had a Little Lamb... I even caught some of Munchin' Impossible (whether it will be on next season's show or not is anyone's guess at this point). What makes them different? They are less than 10 minutes (Abby just barely... it really does need an edit somewhere). and they all have either a plot or something interesting going on with it. Let's say they junk EW and replace it with a new segment where he goes out and does something interesting somewhere, has an adventure, goes out to find something new... then I wouldn't feel it's as bland.

You really should check out my "Ranking Segments" thread for more details.

 

[JLG]

Welcome. This is a good question. Yes, it's been talked about quite a bit here so my thoughts will be one other people have seen before but in a sense a lot of us have been waiting for someone like yourself to contribute to the discussion - Elmo has touched a lot of people and really connects with kids so we've been wanting someone who is part of that audience to join in and contribute those thoughts.

I personally loved the character when it first started - in the 80's through the early 90's Kevin Clash came up with something very special - this sweet shy character with lots of energy filled with life and imagination. Elmo was a young enthusiastic character who got such a fun joy out of learning (and using) a "big word" like "important".

Then throughout the 90's a combination of things happened that tended to influence the others. The Tickle Me Elmo craze, Elmo's overexposure on the show, and the character changing from this sweeter shier character to a more hyper arrogant one. Gone was his hint of a lisp and things like calling Kermit "Mr. Green Frog". Scripts for Elmo got more generic and so did Kevin's portrayal. Older fans of Sesame Street (both "Muppet fans" and general population) felt that Sesame Street was becoming "The Elmo Show" and that this newbie was "taking over the street" especially at the expense of older more classic characters (This was among the background of Jim Henson and Richard Hunt being gone...and their characters fading plus Frank Oz's limited availability. He hadn't yet semi-retired from Muppeteering but due to his directing career, all Muppet projects had to work around his hectic schedule which usually meant him being available to tape stuff for Sesame during a few days. There was also the "Around the Corner" experiment with Season 25 where they debuted a whole new area of the neighborhood with new buildings and characters - this was too overwhelming and was abandoned five years later.) Sesame Workshop/Children's Television Workshop wasn't helping matters by doing projects like "Elmo Saves Christmas", "Elmopalooza!", "Cinderelmo" and "The Adventures of Elmo in Grouchland" which forced Elmo up front as the lead/titular character when Sesame had typically been an ensemble. Even the most casual observer could see that "Elmo" was becoming synonymous with "Sesame Street".

Then the last straw for many was when it was announced that the last 1/3-1/4 of the show actually was indeed "being taken over by Elmo" with the addition of Elmo's World. This was a few years before the overall show became a block segment format and a five minute piece was considered "long". To add a part of the show that not only was between 15-19 minutes but also centered on one character ... one that was getting more and more overexposed and was becoming more a flat corporate icon as opposed to an endearing personality ... just "proved" that Elmo was "The Little Red Menace", "The Monster that Ate Sesame Street" and "The Death of the Show". It didn't help that not only was the last third of the show was "All Elmo All The Time" but that he still tended to largely dominate much of the "regular" show as well.

Just like Elmo's rise in the 90's was taking place among the backdrop of the loss of older Muppeteers and overemphasis on new characters, so too does the changes happening with Sesame Street in the 2000's also need to be looked at in context with all that was going on with Elmo. Sesame Street as a production was skewing younger with its target audience being three and younger whereas its focus had previously been those up to age six (along with always trying to be appealing to the adults and older siblings watching with them to encourage children watching with their caregivers). The show had to sacrifice some of its quality and uniqueness in order to survive in a climate where cable and satellite television meant access to hundreds of channels and competition for ratings. Sesame was no longer the "go-to" show for children. They were one in a large and growing number of possibilities vieing for kids' attention. Whether fully justified or not, Elmo became the symbol, public face, and scapegoat of people's criticisms of Sesame Street and its changing in many ways not for the better.

Kevin Clash does make a huge effort to reach children and establish a deep connection with them. He truly cares about them and is very sincere in his roles and responsibilities. The way children respond to this is very magical and Kevin's talents and understanding of his place as a child's hero should not be overlooked or underestimated. But due to a combination of writing and performance, Elmo has lost a lot of the things that made him so endearing and unique in the beginning and has become more of a generic bland "everyMuppet". I do think that as much of Sesame's cast and crew have been engaging in a lot of retrospection with the 40th anniversary, Kevin seems to have sometime recently become a bit more aware of how the character of Elmo has gotten away from its roots and i've noticed that he's started to embue more of his recent performances with elements of "classic Elmo" and he's become easier and more fun to watch the last two seasons.

I think you nailed it. You said everything I've always thought, too. I love the innocent, whispery Elmo of 1985 to about 1996.

I would add my perception: One thing I think gets overlooked is that Elmo's personality changed partly because his role changed. When he first appeared, Sesame Street was still aimed at the 3-6 set, and Elmo was meant to represent the younger end of that spectrum---the "littler kid" who would tag along with the older kids and pester them with questions about everything. In other words, his character was viewed from, and written from, an older vantagepoint. When the show started to aim younger, it was aiming squarely at children Elmo's age and younger. So Elmo went from being viewed "from above" to being viewed "level" or even "from below", with kids looking UP to him. That would inevitatably change his behavior.

CourtneyDax:

I'm curious, have you checked out what older Sesame Street was like on YouTube? There are literally hundreds of clips on there, mostly from the 70s, 80s and 90s. Muppet, animated, and live-action---the whole nine yards. Pre-and-post Elmo. (Sesamestreet.org also has a lot of older material available for viewing under "Classic Clips") Watching some of this stuff will give you a good idea of what we mean when we talk about how different the show's tone is today.

 

[Mupp]

Present Day = They seem to be dialing back Elmo a little bit, but have also created Abby. However, more of the other classic characters are gaining screen time in this anniversary year. I hope they keep it up.

I hope so too. That is one of the reasons why I have generally enjoyed season 40.

As some have said, I don't think Elmo is evil and I certainly don't hate him.
Yes, they seem to have dialed back on Elmo lately, and for that I am glad. He is a cute character, but the character taking control of everything is bad. That is why I cannot sit through Elmo's World. Although I do give them credit for including some classic characters in Elmo's World from time to time.

And let's face it, that whole "Dorthy has a question" thing is a complete smoke screen. Its all Elmo using his imagination and they are really all of his questions, not his fish. So again, the character is talking control.

So, I don't hate Elmo. I'm glad that season 40 has had a focus on the classic characters. So hopefully that will continue, and assuming that's the case, the only thing I don't like is Elmo's World.

As I mentioned in another thread, I have no problem with Abby's Flying Fairy School or Bert and Ernie's Adventures.
Sesame Street has always had animation, and I like the new characters that are along side Abby in fairy school.

I used to be iffy on Abby, but she has grown on me. I just think of her as a cute character. Besides, I realize that its important for Sesame Street to have good female characters.
(in case anyone was wondering, I am a guy)

 

[Mupp]

By the way, I think that people in this thread have done an excellent job of analyzing the character of Elmo and pin-pointing exactly where things took a turn in terms of how he was presented to viewer.

Again, I have enjoyed season 40 because many of the classic characters have been in the spotlight, and the street stories have not been dominated by Elmo alone. Hopefully this is a trend that will continue.

 

[Drtooth]

on me. I just think of her as a cute character. Besides, I realize that its important for Sesame Street to have good female characters.
(in case anyone was wondering, I am a guy)

I find that SS has struggled with female characters since... well, if you give a non-white non-male character flaws, you're going to have one group after you for negative portrayal. Disney had to jump through so many hoops with the Princess and the Frog... the character was too African American... then she wasn't African American enough... it's a burden on the creative process when you try to make a realistic character that can believably hang out with the rest of the cast, and then come under fire for making the character negative, leaving you with a personality devoid Mary Sue.

I feel there's a lot of untapped potential with Abby... either an episode where she gets fed up with how many times she messes up, and just gives up magic, or having one of the other characters get jealous of her powers. Both have very important lessons attached to them. The only thing that bugs me is that, and I've said this before, when it comes to her CGI segment, she never seems to cause any trouble. It's all Blogg and Gonnigan... and sometimes Nibblet's fault.

As some have said, I don't think Elmo is evil and I certainly don't hate him.
Yes, they seem to have dialed back on Elmo lately, and for that I am glad. He is a cute character, but the character taking control of everything is bad. That is why I cannot sit through Elmo's World. Although I do give them credit for including some classic characters in Elmo's World from time to time.

And let's face it, that whole "Dorthy has a question" thing is a complete smoke screen. Its all Elmo using his imagination and they are really all of his questions, not his fish. So again, the character is talking control.

You see, I hate the concept of Elmo's World. Not even because of Elmo... just... there's so much to dislike about it. I agree... it's a very self centered segment. That's why I hate Barney. SS was always a community, and if something went wrong, someone was there... if something was REALLY going south, the entire neighborhood jumped in (like the season 40 premier). The segment is all about Elmo's imagination, people sending e-mails to Elmo.... and among other things, I think it just always felt uneven compared to the rest of the show. You see 3 minutes of the letter G, 3 or 4 minutes about the number 9, and then 15 minutes about feet. They don't stress numbers and letters in the entire show the way they stress one subject in EW. Had it been some DTV series or a separate half hour show, it wouldn't be so bad...

And you can tell that everyone involved wants to make it better than it is... references to old movies... there was that one about ears that had 2 references to Looney Tunes. The Hair one referenced Cousin Itt for crying out loud. The segment wants to be better than it is, but just can't. And they can't even get rid of it.

 

[mr3urious]

Had it been some DTV series or a separate half hour show, it wouldn't be so bad...

At least other countries show it separately. Why can't they do the same here?

 

[Mupp]

I think it just always felt uneven compared to the rest of the show. You see 3 minutes of the letter G, 3 or 4 minutes about the number 9, and then 15 minutes about feet. They don't stress numbers and letters in the entire show the way they stress one subject in EW. Had it been some DTV series or a separate half hour show, it wouldn't be so bad...

And you can tell that everyone involved wants to make it better than it is... references to old movies... there was that one about ears that had 2 references to Looney Tunes. The Hair one referenced Cousin Itt for crying out loud. The segment wants to be better than it is, but just can't. And they can't even get rid of it.

Yeah. Elmo's World definitely has a very simple plot and that is part of why it is bad as a part of Sesame Street. Its just stressing one subject the whole time
I've noticed too, it seems like they are always trying to add funny bits to make it more entertaining.

Yes, it really would be better if it were a DTV or a separate show.

As a matter fact, years ago when I first saw Elmo's World, I had just switched it on and there it was. I had no idea that it actually part of the Sesame Street show. I didn't think that they would actually have it be part of a Sesame Street episode.
As I recall, it was rather off-putting when I found out.

I guess its similar to when "Blue's Room" become a part of Blue's Clues. It just never seemed to fit well.

And you've got a point about the fact that Abby doesn't seem to make mistakes in fairy school. Hopefully if the segment proves popular and they make more, they will have some plots where she makes mistakes.

 

[Super Scooter]

At least other countries show it separately. Why can't they do the same here?

I'm sure the Sesame Street creative team would be worried about it hurting viewership of the rest of the show. And I really don't think it would work as a seperate program. Then there's an entire show just about Elmo, rather than just an annoying smudge on a beautiful painting.

 

[Drtooth]

At least other countries show it separately. Why can't they do the same here?

2 words... PBS. Wait... that's not even 1 word... it's 3 letters. Oh well, two words does sound a might flashier than three letters, doncha think?


It's just one of those things I just don't see or agree with. I know they needed to get kids attention at the 3/4 point of the show, but they should have done what Abby and Ernie and Bert managed to do, take the characters out of their environment and have them go on interesting adventures. The only thing interesting about Elmo's world is the random little gags they toss in for adults. And the cartoon.

Even the new Munchin' Impossible segment (look around on SE's website) looks to have some potential to be exciting. Certainly a LOT more exciting than talking about how cakes don't have legs and nonsense like that. I still say SS can get rid of EW, just replace it with Elmo doing something else for 5-10 minutes or so.