Do you like Disney owning the Muppets?

[Mario]

"Start at the beginning and when you come to the end, stop!"-Alice In Wonderland.

Ok, I read all of the posts in this topic, and have mentally collected parts that I want to comment on, so my tone might change throughout this post.

1.)Ok, whoever posted that Walt Disney wasn't creative and that he was driven by money, certainly is either mis-informed or not informed, so I can't get mad at them. Walt Disney would run story sessions where he would tell his staff his ideas for hours at a time, running from here to there, and changing his voices. It was as if, his imagination completely took over his body. Also, money had a way of burning a hole in Walt's pocket, and he believed that having money just to have it, was wrong. Walt would constantly ignore his brother Roy's advice on saving money and cutting corners. Whenever Walt Disney was making a profit, he would give his employees raises and find new projects and new ways of making his films more realistic.

2.) If you think about Walt Disney, don't link him to the new Disney's ideals. The new Disney, headed by Eisner, has completely left the moral ideas and values that used to be synonimous with the Disney name. The new Disney has even gone as far as to tell their Cast Members in the parks not to quote or mention Walt Disney so that guests won't realize how different the park is versus how Walt Disney wanted it. (go to dtroops.com or maybe its d-troops.com)

3.) If anyone thinks that Disney just opened the parks to advertize its films, they're both right and wrong. Walt Disney originally had the idea to open Disneyland to create a safe and clean environment for the whole family to enjoy themselves. He had entertainment and story at the heart of his park, like with his movies. His rides were focused on story, and backed up by special effects, unlike how it is today. And, he wanted to make the guests feel like the attention was on them, and that they were the stars. But, after Sleeping Beauty had witnessed a devastating smash at the theatres, Walt decided to name the castle, Sleeping Beauty's castle for extra publicity and because it was his favorite of his films. So, while Disney did use the park as advertizing, it was not his main or even second or third goal.

4.) Someone compared Sesame Street to Walt Disney Animated films. That is an extremely unfair comparison. If they were going to compare Henson and Disney they should have compared equal parts of the companies. Muppet Show and Animated Films or Sesame Street and children's television shows put out by Disney. And, anyone who says that Sesame Street isn't as politically correct as Disney, should watch Grover's around the world clips, take a Spanish lesson from Rosita, or learn about stds from that muppet who has HIV (I heard that this muppet is only in South America and Africa, I don't really know that much about him/her)

5.) I agree with cristyb, my view of the Muppets is different than someone else's because the things that I have seen and heard are different than what other people have experienced.

6.) Hopefully now that Disney owns the Muppets, they can make a new attraction. No offense to anyone, but I don't like Muppetvision 3D. I think that for a 3-D show, it really lacks 3-D effects. But, I do like when Sweetums comes out and the program playing on the tv screens when you are waiting to go into the theatre.

7.) I like the fact that Muppets is now owned by a more stable company like Disney. Especially because I am a Disney fanatic. But, (for now) I am thinking of the two as different things. For me (right now) I see The Muppets and I see the characters from the Disney Animated canon. I don't put them together, I see them as seperate entities. I ask daily Disney Trivia Questions on magicalears.com and people have asked me to start asking Muppets questions, too. And, although legally they are Disney, they just aren't by my standards, so I am yet to ask Muppet trivia questions. (BTW, I think that a trivia section would be great on this site, and you can either have one person ask Muppet questions, or have a game where all members can ask questions or both! )

8.) Pixar will be able to cameo characters in its upcoming films that aren't partnered with Disney. I can't wait for Ratouille (SP?)!

9.) If Disney were to put the Muppet DVDs back in the Vault, they would have months of advertising saying things like, "Don't miss your last chance to own a part of Muppet magic!" Or something else that will make you want to get out and buy it!

10) And, the last thing is that although it may be rumored that Snoopy and Kermit are more widely known that Mickey, Mickey Mouse is the most recognizable symbol coming close to the shwastika (SP?) and the cross.

I think thats all that I have to say for right, now, thanks for listening. (If you are wondering where I got my info on Disney from, I have been researching Walt Disney and his company for the last four years, so don't think that I just made this stuff up. )

 

[Gonzo's Goof]

Just to make myself a little clear by a few of the responses. One I am not comparing Henson and Disney animated films what I am saying if you look politically by US standards. SS seems to have more of the stands that a Liberal would have especially on the Social aspects. As I notice Sunrise said they were a Social Conservative, also see it has you listed in Canada what a conservative there is very different from here. I should have made it clearer I was talking on the US views. I didn't want to get in all the specifics but there are things on SS that are just more liberal in view like I said that everyone helps each other out, never violence even from Oscar, money not a concern. Singing dancing, being artistic and having a more vivid imagination. And most importantly not littering and taking care of the environment. Now not all of those things are good if you think of like the Money aspect it be nice to see someone at least pay for something at Hopper's Store once. I am not trying to condone or attack but yes I am more liberal.
Now on Disney what I have notice is all of my really super conservative friends (yes I do have them about half of my friends fit in this group) they all LOVE Disney I couldn't figure out why it was, and they didn't like SS. But I too grew up and saw the beginnings of the Disney Channel and all. And I remember how often violence was the only way conflict would be resolved, if there was someone or someone’s idea was different they would attack them first. Now Early Walt’s Mickey didn't always do this sometimes he was more like Bugs Bunny and would use out witting more then just violence. The main cartoon I think of was the snowball fight with Donald and the nephews. In this by the end they are lobbing fire at each other etc. Now the Conservatives down here were up in arms about Beavis and Butthead for them just saying fire over and over. Never heard of someone say that was a bad image for Donald to be throwing fireballs at his nephews. Also you have a lot of things like the princesses and money etc. Now look at how down here everyone is worried about taxes and the amount they pay and that goes to social programs like schools, roads, and helping others, but have no problems giving another 80 Billion in Military, as Schools close because of lack of money (not to mention no universal health care). Now some of the watching money like that Uncle Scrooge does is a good lesson, work smarter not harder, and rarely did it seem he walked over people to get ahead in the later Duck Tales series. Like I said I just noticed some of my friend’s views and their beliefs strongly in those cartoons. Call it a subconscious effect of a growing mind. What anyone believes isn't my concern.
But well like I said with Kermit saying people should watch out more for themselves. Just think one day could he say, well it is ok I left the swamp we should drain it to build a new shopping mall, with a Disney Store? Being an artist as well anytime I come up with ideas I now more and more think is there anyway to make sure my ideas stay the vision I saw them as, or will someday they be twisted into some weird thing, giving a completely different message.

Christy also want to say you have a great point and I have to say for technical work the best muppet movie is MTI, I am still trying to figure out the hanging by the rope scene because it don't look green screened. I can't wait though for the release of the Muppet Show on DVD, that was one of the most important things in my life growing up. The show where Gonzo was going to leave I actually cried my mom was freaking she thought I was having a break down lol I didn't know they weren't real. Now remember I was young when I saw it under 10 . But to see someone as strange as Gonzo be accepted always gave me hope. I liked that we never knew what he was, everyone just thought he was some kind of wierd bird. But I agree with you and Vic people have a tendency to fall in love with something and always want that first love back. Like the first time you hear a groups song that you love, that will always be in your top 5 of their songs. Same thing here so I won't say anything about the Muppet Babies (whistles)

Also do remember these are my views and I am not trying to offended anyone but would be nice to see more people get along like the muppets do, versus all the fighting.

 

[christyb]

If you're wondering about "Love Led Us Here" scene in MTI (I think that's the scene you're talking about) Just watch the audio commentary on the DVD. Brian Henson briefly describes it there. Don't have the DVD?? I'll explain it to you in a Private message since it's off topic from this post.

 

[Sunrise]

As I notice Sunrise said they were a Social Conservative, also see it has you listed in Canada what a conservative there is very different from here.

Um...You may have been looking at the wrong post; I live in Florida. ARE there any conservatives in California?
I was essentially agreeing with you on the tendency Disney has to milk a product for all it is worth and then toss it by the wayside. My diatribe on animation was intended as an example, not a comparison.
My political response was only a request not to lump all "righters" or "lefters" into a whitewashed group. Saying that SS is left-leaning because it champions sharing, peace, diversity, environmental responsibility, etc., is to imply that those on the right do not agree with those things, and it is an erronneous assumption. If you want to speak in generalities, I could just as easily say that SS is conservative because it teaches kids to take pride in doing things themselves and values education. (I am deliberately using a very negative left stereotype here, just to make my point; I DO NOT BELIEVE liberals don't value education and responsibility). As for the people you know and their opinions, who knows where they got them. I have never met a conservative in my age group who didn't like Sesame street...the only people who have expressed concern are parents and educators who worried about the "advertisement" style having a negative effect on kids' attention spans - which bears consideration. Frankly, I find SS to be mostly neutral, and that lessons to my kids about sharing, cooperation, and the worth not only of oneself but of others, in addition to their ABC's and 123's, are worthwhile ones that all people need to learn whether they grow up to be left, right, or somewhere in the middle.
You are right about a lot of conservatives still being loyal to Disney. I know a lot of "white collar" types admire Disney's business savvy. But having been a "blue collar" front line worker for years, I can look at things from both sides of the coin, and my side wasn't pretty (the way the company's going, the other side is no bed of roses either). If Disney doesn't return to caring for the little guys that run the place, there won't be any more multi-million dollar bonuses for the big guys. This is where conservatism goes bad. I'm all for people who have the brains and motivation to get as rich as they want. But not when it involves using people like machines.
As for the the other issues, I called myself a social conservative because my concerns lie with the ethics and morals being taught to our kids, and I think conservatives have just gotten lazy and aren't paying attention to what Disney is pumping out. The "Princess" kick? I agree with you - I think it's disgusting. It has everything to do with stroking the overinflated vanity of little girls so they'll buy more products, and nothing to do with teaching them true and lasting life lessons. One of the reasons muppets are so great is that they focus on entertaining, not teaching (Sesame Street excluded), so you can have Piggy acting like a primadonna but it's so over-the-top and self-mocking that I don't worry my little girl is going to emulate her, unless she does it for laughs. Not so with the Disney princesses. As for cartoon violence, I think the argument is silly. Slapstick has always been considered entertaining, whether it's Hardy smacking Laurel or Bugs handing Daffy a stick of dynamite. (Or Crazy Harry blowing up the stage, for that matter.) The slapstick in early Mickey cartoons is not to be compared with, lets say, the death of a villain in a Disney film - but even that is not senseless violence, but an unfortunate necessity. Does anybody really have a problem with a git like Frollo or Gaston or Scar getting what he deserves? And why don't the same people complain about computer games in which teenagers simulate shooting people in the street?
Ok, so, this has degenerated way off-topic; sorry about that. I think we agree on why we are concerned about Disney owning the Muppets, and we share the same reasons, regardless of our ideological differences. Nobody on a talk show has any business asking Kermit about his political views, in my opinion. On this at least we agree; let us join together in hope that the name of Henson will not be dragged through the mud by the Mouse.

 

[Mario]

I really like what you said about violence for entertainment and for moving the plot vs. just for the sake of violence.

 

[ravagefrackle]

well when you get right down to it, Warner bros toons, and the Muppets , have always been funnier than any disney short subject, i dont remeber ever laughing out loud at Mickey , or Gooofy, But kermit , and the Muppest , and Bugs Bunny, and Daffy duck always get me going.

 

[Sunrise]

That's true. I've never found the original "fab 5" cartoons that funny, except for the occasional Donald flick or the "instructional" Goofy cartoons. But I laugh my rear off at Bugs Bunny. It's hard to put your finger on why Warner Bros. characters were so much funnier, except that maybe we all deep down long to be witty schiesters like Bugs. And the Muppets are funny because the humor is multi-layered, plenty there that the kids never notice because they are busy laughing at the sight gags, while the adults can chuckle and wink at each other. Not to say it's naughty (although sometimes it is), but they use more sophisticated humor. And as someone pointed out before, I hope Disney can figure that out, and not have them degenerate into fart jokes and all the other gutter-driven rubbish that the family film industry lately seems to think is hilarious for some unknown reason.

 

[Mario]

Oh, I completely disagree! I laugh way harder at the Disney shorts than the Warner Bros. For me, Warner Bros. is the pinnacle of site gags. If you don't think that Disney has multilayered comedy, maybe you should watch some of those old shorts again, they are filled with satire and jokes geared for older people that just fly over your head as a kid. One short that comes to mind is "Father's Day Off" where there are plenty of site gags, but the radio program playing in the background and the door to door salesman and the milkman that kisses Goofy. I could go on and on, just in that one short.

 

[Sunrise]

Hmmm...I guess I just haven't watched as much of the old Disney shorts. I grew up with Bugs on Saturday mornings, and never got the Disney channel until it became basic cable - at which point they weren't showing the good, classic stuff anymore.

 

[Mario]

I grew up on Bugs Bunny too, Saturday mornings. It wasn't until I was maybe 15, 16 that I started seeing more of the older shorts.

Maybe what we need to do to understand eachother is drop our bias for Warner Bros., Disney, or The Muppets or anyother studio, and realize that they are all great studios that have played off of eachother, given eachother good competition and inspiration. And, that they all, being made by adults, have adult level humor along side their site gags.

I'm so glad that I found this site, because I am learning so much. Not just Henson facts, but about people's points of view. And how what they've seen and haven't seen and what they grew up on affects their perspective. For example, I can pretty much say without too much objection that we all hate the sequals that Disney has been pumping out lately (not including Toy Story 2 and Rescuers Down Under). But, for the kids today, they will include these sequals as Disney films, and it will shape their views on what a Disney film is.