Do you like Disney owning the Muppets?

[Gonzo's Goof]

I have to say I hate Disney owning the Muppets for many reasons, first when they had some rights to them before. First most the Muppet movies before that were original ideas not take off or rip offs of books or other movies. Now that is in debate was that Brian and the kids or Disney. My guess is a lot of pitches and Disney only wanted to produce the books. I didn't like Muppet Christmas Carol or, Treasure Island (hmmm how many of these Treasure rip offs has Disney done now 500?). Now going to the URBAN Wizard of Oz just seems it is all going in the same direction. Like I said I don't know how much was Disney and how much was losing Jim and his very creative mind. But when Disney had it before they also tried to rip the Henson Company off causing the huge mess it ended up in and everything being sold off. Then you have Muppets Tonight, again I didn't really like it, but I was giving it a chance, watching it and all, next thing I know, Bam it is only on the Disney Channel for the new episodes and not on primetime. Surprise factor? Zero, Disney just has a habit to use things to suck out the money as much as they can and then destroy it or just get rid of it. Right now they are talking of doing Toy Story 3 with out Pixar, because they have the rights to the characters and the rights most of the voice contracts. Also lets not forget the lawsuit from a Kid's Hospital who are suppose to get all money from things with Peter Pan, Disney is saying they should get nothing from their new prequel they just did. That is how Disney works and their mind set, they don't care of anything but money. Right now they know the Muppets can save them. Last year I read that Kermit passed Mickey as the most recognized Character in the World. Trust me Disney didn't miss that survey either. But the moment they can't make money on it, it is gone gone gone. When Jim started working with them they were a different company, and well had the money to produce the new projects.

Now for the reason that will upset most but oh well. I generally see two types of people those that like Sesame Street, and those that like Disney. Yes this is political, because those that like SS lean more to the left. Those that like Disney lean more to the right. It makes sense if you think about it, and no I don't think either company does it on purpose. Just well SS teaches, always happy, ever notice how people never hand over money at Hooper's store, and always have time to play. That is a few things if you think you will think of a lot of examples. Then to Disney, the Mice like the Mice, the Ducks like the Ducks, if there is a conflict the best way to solve it is have a fight, and if you are looking for love well dress to be a Princess and look for the guy with the Money. Like I said I don't think any of this is Disney saying we are going to push this idea or SS for that matter. But it does happen so will Disney start trying to change more of the Muppets to have more conflict and less talking to a result? Yes I know there is a lot of violence blowing up in the Muppets but well it is different it is more of a humor thing then an ends to a mean. I have already seen Kermit change with the new puppeteer. He was on Hanity and Colms last year on Fox, and Hanity asked if he was Dem or Rep. Very smartly he said "I am a Flippatarian, we fight for frog rights." Hanity asked again come on tell us what you believe. And Kermit said "Well I agree with the Republicans that more people need to be responsible for themselves and take care of themselves." I almost died, I don't care what someone believes as themselves but if you are playing a character at that moment don't say something that Character would never say, Kermit was always more then willing to say sure come along to anyone and lets see if I can help. Like I said that was on the fly comment but what if the scripts turn more and more into stuff like that. Or will the Muppets not take stars on like Whoopi because they are "controversial" or will they be like Jim and say "come on the show Alice Cooper." I am said to say if some control is not kept away from Disney you will see your most beloved characters change to what ever the swing of the moment is, so Disney doesn't upset anyone, or pushes something more to the masses to make the sell and not for the Rainbow Dream.

It all comes down to this; Disney only cares about Walt's Vision not Jim's. Right now some there don't even care of Walt's if that is the case how can you think they will respect what Jim created. Hopefully the Fans of the Muppets though will always demand it to show the hope and dreams that a frog could be with a Pig, and a weirdo was ok to have around, and see the Rainbow Connection and make sure it stay's there, no matter who owns them.

Sorry to be so long winded a lot of this I have been thinking about over the past year just haven't posted it.

 

[christyb]

Well I'd say I'd have to agree with you on some points. But it is still too soon to see what direction Disney is going to go with the Muppets. However I am offended and the Christmas Carol and Treasure Island remarks. Those happen to be my two favorite things that the Muppets have done ever. (I'm only kidding I'm really mad at you) Before I say whether or not I like the sale I think we need to let some water pass under the bridge before we make any rash assumptions. However I am like a lot of the people around here and would like to see the Henson Co. Keep Kermit and the gang. But that's not going to happen so I'll get used to the "Singing, dancing mouse with his own amusement park" owning my some of my favorite characters.

 

[McFraggle]

I agree.

 

[Vic Romano]

Truth is, and you'll see all over MC's forums, Muppet fans have generational interests. I agree with a lot of what Gonzo's Goof said particularly in how things are handled and performed now then when Jim is alive. I won't comment on which aspects of the Muppets are better or worse for fear of my life . But take MTI and MCC. Two Muppet films that came out after Jim passed and the Muppets began their new revitalization process. Are they good movies? I did not care for them at all, but they are JHC creations, so I'll respect them. Here though shows the generational issue; christyb loves those two movies, she is 18, myself and Gonzo's Goof didn't care for them; we're in our late twenties and you'll find similarities like that all over these forums. Muppet fans share one universal trait: we all love the Muppets, but as in relation to age; it's unfair to say MCC and MTI are terrible films and vice versa, it's simply a generation thing, the same will be (for the most part) a varied interest in the new ownership primarily by age.

 

[christyb]

That and Brian Henson directed them not Frank Oz or Jim Henson himself. That does make a difference in the style and the way the characters are presented. But Vic we're not THAT far in age are we? Personally I think Muppet Treasure Island was the last really great movie the Muppets have put out. Don't get me wrong MFS, Kermit's Swamp Years, and VMMC were pretty good and I own them myself. However they weren't musical oriented like the old movies were. The new ownership can be either bad or good. We won't really see until Eisner resigns offically and steps away as the Muppet's connection to Disney Enterprises.

 

[Vic Romano]

No, I guess we're not that far apart in age, thanks for grouping me in with you beautiful young people
I did not like MCC at all, and I really didn't like IAVMMC. I found MTI mildly entertaining, but oddly enough, I really enjoyed MFS.
I guess my personal feelings are that (and please remember these are my personal feelings and not to be taken offense by), but I'm not real thrilled about how the Muppets have been handled, portrayed, and/or interpreted since Jim died. I consider myself a fan of the late seventies thru the early 90's, but loving a lot of what the Muppets do from time to time in the present, I respect them, I don't always agree with their more recent apearances, but I do respect them.
True, Disney's recent track record also leaves something to be desired, but you're dealing with two classic titans here. Look at it this way: the Looney Tunes have certainly been long out of their hay-day, they only star in trivial movies and they do not hold the star appeal they once did, the Disney gang (Mickey, Donald, Goofy; etc.) is there, but it seems they lurk in the shadows, not really the starlets they once were either. The Muppets seem to have more credibility then both WB and Disney, so they're kind of exposed and under the microscope; so what it all boils down to is, I don't know yet if this re-marriage between Disney and our beloved Muppets is a good thing, but I'm hoping they (Disney) have the ability to make them (the Muppets) the super stars they really are.
A long winded dialogue that really has nothing to do with the topic of discussion, but I feel better for saying it.

 

[christyb]

Yes it does. Anyway. What you like or may not like also depends on how you grew up with the muppets. (Confused yet?) For example I will use myself. I grew up with Muppet Babies, Fraggle Rock, MCC, MTI and the whole works. How I see them is how they are portrayed after Jim Henson's death. I wasn't alive or too young to remember the Muppets in their glory days. (seeing as I was 4 when Jim Henson died and born way after TMS ended you get the picture). When you've seen and liked something different a person would naturally like the old way better. So to tie this into the topic is this....Some of us are pretty much babies (i.e. me) and all we know is what Disney has done with the Muppets. So the younger fan group might be more inclined to look more favorably on the sale. However the older fan group (please don't get offended I'm not saying everyone above 18 is old) got the opportunity to see the Muppets at what was obviously their best. Does any of this make sense??

 

[Vic Romano]

Excellent point christy.
Now if you'll excuse me; I gotta' get my walker and make my way down to the pharmacy for my rhuemetism medication

 

[christyb]

I hear Granny has some brewin' in her back yard. (where's that reference from??)
LoL.

 

[Sunrise]

Disney's Declining Quality

Howdy all, sorry for butting in on a post I haven't been involved in, so if I repeat a point that's already been made, please be merciful.
I have to say I am very worried about Disney owning the muppets. I was a huge Disney fan for years; my lifelong dream was to go into animation, and I worked at WDW next to muppetvision for a long time. Henson loyalties aside (and I have them in spades), I am simply concerned about the future of Kermit and Co. because Disney has manifestly turned away from Walt's vision in its endless quest for the bottom line.
Case in point: Feature Animation (RIP).
Back in the 80's, Eisner was ready to can the animation department, calling it an unproductive drain on company finances. Then when it shocked the world by producing the smash hit "Little Mermaid", he went 180 and was saying how animation was the backbone of the company, etc. Then he spent the next fifteen years or so turning an industry whose lifeblood was creativity into a mass-production franchise, churning out a new film every year to keep people buying its overproduced merchandise, watching its silly syndicated programs, and tolerating the plage of NAUSEATING, WRETCHED, MAY-THE-CREATORS-OF-THE-IDEA-ROAST direct-to-video "sequels" that rape and mock the original classics.
So what happens...the candle burning at both ends burns itself out, but meanwhile everyone wants a piece. Eisner decided animation would work better if, instead of leaving animators alone to do what they did best, they were taken over by endless layers of middle-men and hollywood film types, most without a creative bone in their bodies. Visually-driven stories ripe for animation were replaced by melodramatic or self-mocking "sophisticated" scripts that preached politically-correct new age mush at kids instead of entertaining families. And people got sick of it. The only studio making good cartoons is now Pixar, and the reason is not the almighty computer - it is that they respect the artists, and the artists know what animation is all about. Disney decided animators, once kings of the castle, were merely replacable craftspeople...so the quality of their films suffered, but as usual when their economic formulas don't work, the guys in charge blamed changing consumer tastes instead of their own bad product, and last year they sounded the death knell of 2d animation - the "backbone" of the company and its whole reason for existence.
So what does this have to do with muppets? I am so afraid they will be treated the same way - milked for every penny using every low marketing ploy in the books, and then tossed by the wayside when the public loses interest from overstimulation and cheap production. I hope I am wrong. But the track record is there. I don't see how, after the way the animators were treated, Disney is going to change its ways and treat the puppeteers and creative people involved with the muppets with the freedom they need to work well. Creative people are no longer the norm, or the rulers at Disney, whatever their PR campaigns say.
And to respond quickly to Gonzo's Goof and his/her political comments, let me defend conservatives by pointing out that most social conservatives are completely disgusted with the materialistic, worldly messages Disney promotes daily with its merchandise and programming. And as a conservative who ADORES Sesame Street, I can honestly say that I have NEVER been concerned about any message my child would pick up there, which is not something I can say about the programming on the Disney channel these days.
Anyhow. That's my two cents. Thanks for listening.