Disney Princesses

[Harleena]

A lesbian princess? Yeah, right. Like Disney's going to tangle with the moral crusaders on that one. In fact, other than the disastrous Postcards from Buster episode, the only time I've seen same sex couples referenced in a cartoon, it was Clarence. Relatively new and on the DL. And big freaking props to them for making Jeff's parents a lesbian couple.

As good as that would be, I doubt Disney will do anything like that for a while after the whole "Taylor has two moms" controversy from Good Luck Charlie. And I have noticed that not a lot of same-sex couples are referenced in western cartoons. Sure, they have live-action shows (like Modern Family) which feature same-sex couples, and let's not forget our lovely friends Sailor Uranus and Sailor Mercury, but they seem to avoid it in cartoons.

As for a plus sized princess. Keep in mind, plus sized would translate to slightly thicker drawn. There's no way they'd go full on fat. Even if the entire world population turned into the humans from Wall*e, our TV stars would be mostly thin, so that's right out. But to be totally honest, I would love to see Disney animate a movie about a really fat princess. That would be so incredibly weird. Could you imagine the fashion dolls they'd have to make? How much bounce they'd have to animate? And it would still be less of a mindwarp than Home on the Range.

I wouldn't mind a chubbier princess. As long as they don't do anything stupid with it, like make too many fat jokes or something. And why does everyone hate Home on the Range? (and Chicken Little)

 

[CensoredAlso]

As good as that would be, I doubt Disney will do anything like that for a while after the whole "Taylor has two moms" controversy from Good Luck Charlie. And I have noticed that not a lot of same-sex couples are referenced in western cartoons. Sure, they have live-action shows (like Modern Family) which feature same-sex couples, and let's not forget our lovely friends Sailor Uranus and Sailor Mercury, but they seem to avoid it in cartoons.

Because there's still a lot of groups that would complain about children seeing same sex couples and the networks and studios don't want the trouble. Trouble means no money. Adults are pretty much allowed to see what they want to see, but children don't have the same rights (which is both good and bad, in my opinion). There's more scrutiny about what they can see on TV or movies.

 

[Drtooth]

As good as that would be, I doubt Disney will do anything like that for a while after the whole "Taylor has two moms" controversy from Good Luck Charlie. And I have noticed that not a lot of same-sex couples are referenced in western cartoons. Sure, they have live-action shows (like Modern Family) which feature same-sex couples, and let's not forget our lovely friends Sailor Uranus and Sailor Mercury, but they seem to avoid it in cartoons.

I am still baffled as to why a bunch of Sailor Moon fangirls thought they could get away with a Lesbian Couple in an American dub in the 90's, when even Liberals weren't that accepting of gay couples. Heck, the dub (unless I got the timing wrong) would have had them before Ellen came out on her sitcom. THAT was controversial.

Personally, I'm happy Clarence flew under the radar with their 2 reveals. A Gay couple being hinted at at the beginning of "Neighborhood Restaurant" (even then, the networked talked them down to European style kissing on both cheeks rather than a full on) and Jeff's parents revealed in "Jeff Wins." I'm very proud of them for getting that as past the radar as possible. And there's about 20 years between that and when Sailer Moon got her American dub, so...

Because there's still a lot of groups that would complain about children seeing same sex couples and the networks and studios don't want the trouble. Trouble means no money. Adults are pretty much allowed to see what they want to see, but children don't have the same rights (which is both good and bad, in my opinion). There's more scrutiny about what they can see on TV or movies.

Exactly. I'm very proud of the strides that were made, but it's a loooooong way from being that marginalized that the loud, obnoxious, hateful groups that have way too much power will no longer matter. When Archie added Keven Keeler, however, there was more positive reaction than negative, and the negative reaction was promptly lambasted and ignored. Maybe we're not too far off, but there's still a ways to go.

 

[Harleena]

I am still baffled as to why a bunch of Sailor Moon fangirls thought they could get away with a Lesbian Couple in an American dub in the 90's, when even Liberals weren't that accepting of gay couples. Heck, the dub (unless I got the timing wrong) would have had them before Ellen came out on her sitcom. THAT was controversial.

Personally, I'm happy Clarence flew under the radar with their 2 reveals. A Gay couple being hinted at at the beginning of "Neighborhood Restaurant" (even then, the networked talked them down to European style kissing on both cheeks rather than a full on) and Jeff's parents revealed in "Jeff Wins." I'm very proud of them for getting that as past the radar as possible. And there's about 20 years between that and when Sailor Moon got her American dub, so...

Agreed. Times are different now. And then there was also the whole "Bubbline" controversy from Adventure Time…but seriously, if Finn and Flame Princess can kiss, then why can't Princess Bubblegum and Marceline?

 

[CensoredAlso]

Exactly. I'm very proud of the strides that were made, but it's a loooooong way from being that marginalized that the loud, obnoxious, hateful groups that have way too much power will no longer matter. When Archie added Keven Keeler, however, there was more positive reaction than negative, and the negative reaction was promptly lambasted and ignored. Maybe we're not too far off, but there's still a ways to go.

Well you know how it will go. The way it always goes for minority groups on TV and movies. It will become really trendy and everybody will be doing it. And then the fad will pass. The only way to make it last is to create characters whose sole motivation isn't that they're gay. Writers still seem to struggle with this.

 

[Harleena]

On a less controversial note, what is everyone's favorite Disney princess song?

 

[Drtooth]

Well you know how it will go. The way it always goes for minority groups on TV and movies. It will become really trendy and everybody will be doing it. And then the fad will pass. The only way to make it last is to create characters whose sole motivation isn't that they're gay. Writers still seem to struggle with this.

I think that it's a skill that more writers are getting hip to. Just no cartoonishly Jar Jar Binks style garbage from the Will and Grace people. I just love how their last sitcom that used the same stereotypes and style of writing went over like a lead balloon. Seems at least viewers are smarter than they were back in the late 90's/early 00's.

But that's exactly right and goes back to context. We can't just make a Disney Princess to fill out a quota and please a group of people. Princess and the Frog went through too much crap from everyone on every side, and in the end kids went to see the subpar Chipmunks sequel. Yeah. we're all offended that Tiana's name was either too black, not black enough, or somehow sounding vaguely like a somewhat offensive term in you say it with a cold. But Kicking an old woman in a wheel chair down an escalator in a distinctly non-Family Guy setting? Perfectly inoffensive.

 

[beatnikchick300]

On a less controversial note, what is everyone's favorite Disney princess song?

I like "Almost There," "A Whole New World," "Belle," (Belle does sing part of it, so I think that counts), and "Colors of the Wind" (even though I very much dislike the movie it was in).

I'm totally behind a plus-sized Disney princess (heck, a plus-sized Disney heroine would even be nice. Who ISN'T stereotypical). And as of the finale of "Legend of Korra" (spoiler alert), Nickelodeon has made a lesbian couple, so I don't really see why Disney can't make a lesbian heroine (what about people who get offended? They need to get over it. Disney has shown characters die on film, in very gruesome ways sometimes. People can handle them having a female character who is attracted to women).

To the complaint about people demanding plus-sized princesses or princesses of certain nationalities or races, just stop. Representation matters. End of story. You know why people demand (or, more accurately, suggest) that? Because in media, for the most part, even nowadays, female characters are mostly white, young (little girls and teens-under 35), straight, etc. I don't exactly think people are in the wrong for questioning that...

 

[Dominicboo1]

I like "Almost There," "A Whole New World," "Belle," (Belle does sing part of it, so I think that counts), and "Colors of the Wind" (even though I very much dislike the movie it was in).

I'm totally behind a plus-sized Disney princess (heck, a plus-sized Disney heroine would even be nice. Who ISN'T stereotypical). And as of the finale of "Legend of Korra" (spoiler alert), Nickelodeon has made a lesbian couple, so I don't really see why Disney can't make a lesbian heroine (what about people who get offended? They need to get over it. Disney has shown characters die on film, in very gruesome ways sometimes. People can handle them having a female character who is attracted to women).

To the complaint about people demanding plus-sized princesses or princesses of certain nationalities or races, just stop. Representation matters. End of story. You know why people demand (or, more accurately, suggest) that? Because in media, for the most part, even nowadays, female characters are mostly white, young (little girls and teens-under 35), straight, etc. I don't exactly think people are in the wrong for questioning that...

Right! If they never wanted to potentially offend anyone they wouldn't have made a Muslim princess , or a princess that is magic(Elsa)

 

[Drtooth]

I'm totally behind a plus-sized Disney princess (heck, a plus-sized Disney heroine would even be nice. Who ISN'T stereotypical). And as of the finale of "Legend of Korra" (spoiler alert), Nickelodeon has made a lesbian couple, so I don't really see why Disney can't make a lesbian heroine (what about people who get offended? They need to get over it. Disney has shown characters die on film, in very gruesome ways sometimes. People can handle them having a female character who is attracted to women).

I agree, yet with the caveat that more tolerant people will overshadow the intolerant. Some of us still remember the Southern Baptist Disney Boycot of the 90's. I can see the detraction already: "Disney using princesses to push gay agenda." It's a matter of Disney doing something bold and wanting to cover their butts from overly powerful groups. I'd say it's something bound to happen in time, it just might take a while.

I just find Clarence, Korra, and Paranorman managed to be bolder, but more subtly. Then again, Korra was dumped out online instead of getting a TV premiere. Then again, it could be a co-incidence.

To the complaint about people demanding plus-sized princesses or princesses of certain nationalities or races, just stop. Representation matters. End of story. You know why people demand (or, more accurately, suggest) that? Because in media, for the most part, even nowadays, female characters are mostly white, young (little girls and teens-under 35), straight, etc. I don't exactly think people are in the wrong for questioning that...

Truth. But they have to do it right. I can't tell you how much tokens or flat characters bug me. That's not representation, that's saying "Happy?" in a passive aggressive manner. Look at Jasmine. Did anyone even care that she was Middle Eastern when the movie came out? No. It came out natural. The crap they went through with Tiana was legendary, and girls just wanted the Chippettes anyway. It's great that we have an African American princess, but even the groups on board with that decision put them under scrutiny. Yeah. The "Maddie sounds almost like Mammy if you say it with a cold to someone with Tinnitus" crowd. It's give and take. You don't want these companies relying on white characters, stop picking everything apart as a negative cultural stereotype. Characters need flaws. Oversensitivity kills diversity just as much as ignorance. And sometime you have to be met halfway.

But above all, do they have to be Princesses? Princess is just a brand now. I've been saying this ad nauseum in this thread, but Disney's best when it goes off book and does something all its own. Or as on its own as it can.