Deja vu all over again

[Drtooth]

When it comes down to it, the Tea Party has two parents: The Democrats and The Republicans.

1. The Democrats belittled and scoffed at voters for not being as "smart" as they were. They wanted to fight for the working class, but they disliked working class people. Hence, many voters felt disconnected from the Democratic party.

2. Enter the Republicans who took advantage of this dissatisfaction and played into the voters' fears and pretended to share their values.

The result = The Tea Party was born. It was inevitable really.

Yeah, but you forgot the biggest parent ever, the Libertarian Pied Piper. The whole Constitutional literalism and misinterpreting of American History (from people who don't even KNOW history, yet) in favor of selfishly not wanting to pay taxes. That's Libertarian. Trust me. I looked into it, and after the initial "Nah, we shoulda stayed out of Iraq and remained isolationist" sense, there was a lot of "The only rights we should have is for big business and gun owners," "We don't want to pay for public education," and my personal favorite, "Big Government means that if I own a miniscule, non-money making small business, I'm going to go bankrupt if the government puts rules and regulations on banks and bigger companies that would run over my little coffee house/comic store with a steamroller with me in it to build an abandoned lot." They want some pretty extreme stuff that benefits no one.

Oh... and Fox News sponsors them. Not just fuels them, SPONSORS them.

To break down the gist of a Ted Rall comic I once saw about the Tea Party, Outrage at republicans lead to joining a group that makes you outraged at the other parties more, causing you to vote Republican as usual. There's no change... just a pseudo-patriotic name and some scary as heck policies.

I would have respect for an anti-government movement, but it's more like a displaced anger over a section of the government over the one we just had that caused the worst to happen. Or as I like to call it, throwing the bums back in. You make an interesting point, BUT it is a little more complicated than that. Especially since it gained notoriety due to the legislation for Health Care reform. Now, it started off with reasonable logic... government run health care may not be that good, it could be a waste of money, and there might be some negative effects on Medicare. I didn't agree with that, but I saw the point. But then the anti-government militia-esque wack jobs and of course, rich Neo-Cons that are fearful that they'd have to pay their fair share to Uncle Sam, and Dr. Nick type hack doctors that want to keep screwing patients got a hold of it, and all the sudden it became about Nazi socialist Kenyian born communist trying to kill grandma and force abortions and turning the US into USSR. The absolute garbage that slimed out of their mouths was unAmerican, unpatriotic, and 100% pro lasse fare big business. An anti-government rally turned into a pro-THIS side of the government only and keep your hands off our lead painted, e-coli tainted, high fructose poison rally.

Suffice to say, once Tea Party favorite in a blue state Scott Brown(noser) got elected after the opportunistic death of Ted Kennedy (I blame Martha Coakley and liberals that just wanted a woman to do the job... Palliuca would have kicked Brown's butt), the market value of health care provider stocks went up, followed by health care rate increases. Who are these people REALLY working for?

I know I'm harsh, but I have no tolerance for people who say that giving us health care is exactly like the mass genocide of Jews, Gypsies, gays, mentally challenged, and others. Especially since these same Obama=Hitler types favor some pretty fascist, UNAMERICAN, Unchristian loonies like Michelle Bachman. Her logic is a lot closer to square mustache man than any Democrat or Republican out there. And niot because she's a woman, because she's a scary loonatic that wants to put up re-education centers for the young people. Really..> John McCain really shouldn't appologize about calling them hobbits... well, maybe... they seem more like orks right now...

 

[newsmanfan]

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**** at DrTooth's creative insults.

Oh, the uneducated always use Hitler as their boogeyman-comparison standard when they have, as you said, NO real grasp of history. And the entire Libertarian premise is the party of a few people, FOR a few people and screw everyone else; their deluded concept that LESS government regulation (their code, "interference") would be good for all is patently flying in the face of reality and history: every time we've allowed lasseiz-faire ANYTHING, someone has wound up royally destroying someone else for a buck. Period. I don't know whether humans are inherently selfish or are taught that behavior, but the fact remains that people, and especially people grouped under the black umbrella of corporations, MUST be carefully watched or else they'll steal, defraud, lie, cheat, and probably commit incest and adultery if they can get away with it on the general populace. The whole philosophy of the Libertarians -- and yes, hence the Tea Party -- is shark eat shark, or maybe shark eat all the bitty fishies and other sharks too.

I still say this nation needs MUCH better education. People need to realize how desperately they need to be AWARE of all that goes on in the world, not just next door in Bubba's trailer. Apathy is the Tea Party's greatest weapon and they use it viciously.
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People need to realize how desperately they need to be AWARE of all that goes on in the world, not just next door in Bubba's trailer

No offence, but why would they want to listen when they're constantly being told how ignorant they are and treated like "trailer park" stereotypes? You can't expect people to listen when they feel like they're being insulted. That's something the Democratic party has yet to learn, and that's why they're not getting the support they need.

 

[Drtooth]

No offence, but why would they want to listen when they're constantly being told how ignorant they are and treated like "trailer park" stereotypes? You can't expect people to listen when they feel like they're being insulted. That's something the Democratic party has yet to learn, and that's why they're not getting the support they need.

I've said it before... liberals are like the fat girls lunch table in high school. They say nasty stuff about the popular kids to no one (or other fat girls) passive aggressively. The truth is, they may think they're smarter than the lower class that somehow votes for people who want to destroy them, but the liberal elite is NO match for the Neo-Con Uber-elite. Those people are deviant masterminds that manage to inflict Stockholm syndrome on the poor and middle class that keep voting them into power (and then, give favors to party doners that make sure the very same people who vote for them are out of jobs). And frankly, they say things nastier than any passive aggressive fat girl liberal can and would say. The Neo-Cons can take ANYTHING the libs say and turn it against them. When the libs do that, it's clumsy and doesn't do much good.

Seriously... why do you think they have so many female and "minority" right wing candidates now? So they can use the "progressives aren't really progressive" ammo. You know the "You only want women and blacks in politics if they're on your side. You're the REAL backwards, racists, and you don't accept people who wouldn't accept you! Boo HOO!!!!"

So basically, they're so good at this, they can play the heck out a victim card, when their policies make victims of us all.

Oh, the uneducated always use Hitler as their boogeyman-comparison standard when they have, as you said, NO real grasp of history. And the entire Libertarian premise is the party of a few people, FOR a few people and screw everyone else; their deluded concept that LESS government regulation (their code, "interference") would be good for all is patently flying in the face of reality and history: every time we've allowed lasseiz-faire ANYTHING, someone has wound up royally destroying someone else for a buck. Period. I don't know whether humans are inherently selfish or are taught that behavior, but the fact remains that people, and especially people grouped under the black umbrella of corporations, MUST be carefully watched or else they'll steal, defraud, lie, cheat, and probably commit incest and adultery if they can get away with it on the general populace. The whole philosophy of the Libertarians -- and yes, hence the Tea Party -- is shark eat shark, or maybe shark eat all the bitty fishies and other sharks too.

I'd say, for the most part, Libertarians aren't so much uneducated as in over-educated to the point they believe their own conspiracy crackpot theories. Libertarians are like those hate groups that recruit disenchanted youths... they manage to recruit disenfranchised Republicans who want to move even further right with broken logic and Constitutional and Historical backings for their selfish grizzled old prospector agenda. I don't even hate the Republican motives as much as I hate there's. All and all, very selfish ways to not pay taxes (because we revolted against the British because they taxed us.... NO... we revolted because they taxed us WITHOUT letting the colony have a say in government... also that they forced British soldiers in the Revolutionary War to bunk in any dang house they wanted).

These people are AGAINST public schools. I'm sorry, but that's barbaric. Not all of us can afford to send our kids to private like the party leaders, and home schooling is just for crazy people like them to be indoctrinated with something dangerous. Yes, there are times when you have to home school because a kid can't function in a public school setting for various reasons... but not to these people.

 

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truth is, they may think they're smarter than the lower class that somehow votes for people who want to destroy them, but the liberal elite is NO match for the Neo-Con Uber-elite. Those people are deviant masterminds that manage to inflict Stockholm syndrome on the poor and middle class that keep voting them into power

I really do think the Democrats would be more of a match if they respected their voters more. Their platform very often comes across as, "We want to remake everything in our own image." And anything they disagree with needs to go, even if it's important to the voters. I'm not saying Democrats should agree with everything voters say (obviously voters aren't correct on every issue). But they should make some effort to understand and respect the voters' points of view and not just cheerfully proclaim it's all going to be over soon--and then wonder why the voters don't like them!

 

[Drtooth]

I really do think the Democrats would be more of a match if they respected their voters more. Their platform very often comes across as, "We want to remake everything in our own image." And anything they disagree with needs to go, even if it's important to the voters. I'm not saying Democrats should agree with everything voters say (obviously voters aren't correct on every issue). But they should make some effort to understand and respect the voters' points of view and not just cheerfully proclaim it's all going to be over soon--and then wonder why the voters don't like them!

Not so much that, but the Democrats need the same satanic marketing firm the right has. The right renames things to sound wonderful if it's bad or horrifying if it's good.
I once saw something on Frontline (or something...) about marketing and they talked to the right wing "consultant" that got them to change the "Estate Tax" to the "Death Tax." It still means the same thing, but by changing a word to sound like it victimizes people, rather than puts back revenue when rich old people "mysteriously" kick the bucket when their money hungry kids are next in line. Also the word "entitlement" for social security and Medicare, making it sound like some tax gulping waste of a program rather than benefits that old people earn and pay taxes into their entire lives.

All the right needs to do is throw some scary words here and there, and the working class automatically HATES anything beneficial, but if you give it a patriotic name, like the Patriot Act (no better example than that), they'll support it. That's why the Tea Party goes with the name of a righteous act of American Disobediant, instead of calling themselves what they should be called, "the selfish old people who don't want to pay taxes and parrot outrageous things told directly to them by people who make more money writing a page of unfounded gibberish than they will their entire lives of actually working group."

 

[CensoredAlso]

Not so much that, but the Democrats need the same satanic marketing firm the right has. The right renames things to sound wonderful if it's bad or horrifying if it's good...

Both of our points are true. Bottom line, the Democrats do need a better sense of PR, lol.

 

[Drtooth]

Both of our points are true. Bottom line, the Democrats do need a better sense of PR, lol.

If there's one thing that the left completely fails at is manipulation. Sure, they can be manipulative if they want to, but they're just incredibly bad at it. I mean, the right and left have their bases... but it's those undecideds that really are the focus of exploitation. The people that feel they need to vote because they have to.

Here's how it breaks down...

Bush: Terrorists, gay marriage, brown people, regulations... all these things are coming to HURT YOU! The government wants to prod and poke at your identity! That's a good honest American thing.

Obama: uh... I'm not Bush.

The I'm not Bush only got him so far, considering how wimpy and weak he's been getting rid of Bush policies. his base will leave and go vote for some pie in the sky ultra left candidate that has less a chance of winning the election as Charlie Sheen... or even Charlie Brown and Snoopy, where as the undecided are listening to the vitriol and venom coming off the right, basically criticizing someone who lets them get their way and hasn't changed much.

 

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Bush: Terrorists, gay marriage, brown people, regulations... all these things are coming to HURT YOU! The government wants to prod and poke at your identity! That's a good honest American thing.

It's not only instilling fear though. The Republicans also try to reassure voters that they support things like their faith (even if it's not always true). While the Democrats sometimes (not always) come across as saying, "Faith is silly. We'll get rid of that." And again I'm not saying Democrats should always agree with the voters. But there is occasionally this vibe of intellectual elitism that is hurting them.

 

[Drtooth]

It's not only instilling fear though. The Republicans also try to reassure voters that they support things like their faith (even if it's not always true). While the Democrats sometimes (not always) come across as saying, "Faith is silly. We'll get rid of that." And again I'm not saying Democrats should always agree with the voters. But there is occasionally this vibe of intellectual elitism that is hurting them.

The thing that bugs me is that the left gets so much crap for not being religious, but the Right can go on and uses religion to manipulate their constituents ALL the while saying the same thing the left does, but in private.

Sort of like...

Left: Why can't you idiots see that you're being manipulated?

Right: I can't believe those idiots fell for it! HAHAHAHAH!

Religious types used to be on the side of the left... but then came Darth Falwell and the whole 1980 mess... I scream for separation of church and state, not so much for the fear of religious rule, but for people to think outside their beliefs for something that does actually benefit them.

That said, I have yet to see an atheist Democrat politician.