Battle Within: The Spider-Man 3 Thread (Spoilers Ahead!)

[Winslow Leach]

Meanwhile, guys, we need to get to work on pitching the Ursula movie!

Yes! We must send our letters and petitions to Sony forthwith!

 

[Winslow Leach]

Off topic, but superhero related...

I heard this morning that Scarecrow (played again by Cillian Murphy) may join the Joker in The Dark Knight. It is speculated he might help the Joker concoct the Clown Prince's Joker toxin.

 

[SarahOnBway]

I know a lot of people don't share this with me (especially my friends, who can't stand him), but I think Harry was one of the more interesting and intriguing characters in Spidey 1 and 2. I really enjoyed his character development, from being Peter's friend and protector to rival for MJ's affections to a young man torn between his loyalty to his friend and avenging his father. I think Franco was perfect for the role.

I agree, I think that Harry had great development throughout all three movies and James Franco was just perfect in every one. Even though Harry has everything anyone could ever want, your heart still breaks when he's tormented over X or Y.

I'm not a Kirsten Dunst fan. There was controversy when she was cast in the first film, and I guess some fans still haven't warmed to her. Some say Bryce would have made a better MJ, but I don't think I've ever seen her in anything, so I can't judge. I love character development in movies--even action movies--but I thought most of the Peter/MJ scenes in the first two movies caused them to grind to a screeching halt. I don't know what it is...I just don't find Kirsten Dunst that appealing.

Aggred. Definitely, definitely agreed.

 

[Winslow Leach]

I agree, I think that Harry had great development throughout all three movies and James Franco was just perfect in every one. Even though Harry has everything anyone could ever want, your heart still breaks when he's tormented over X or Y.



Aggred. Definitely, definitely agreed.

I think Franco is a great actor, period. I never saw him on Freaks & Geeks. I first became aware of him when he played James Dean in a made-for-cable movie a few years ago (it aired on TNT). He was uncanny as Dean and gave an excellent performance. That was about a year before the first Spidey film came out.

I already know how everything turns out, but does the ending of the film bring a satisfactory conclusion to the Peter/Harry/MJ saga?

And I don't want to keep beating a dead horse, but Kirsten Dunst...her MJ just annoys me. She's too whiny and self-absorbed. I think she is ultimately more damaging to Peter/Spider-man than the Green Goblin/Doc Ock/Sandman and Venom combined!

And if her voice is thin, and if she is playing Debbie Harry, I sincerely hope she either lyp-synchs to the real Debbie, or someone who sounds very much like her.

 

[Winslow Leach]

It's Kirsten Dunst for me. I've never really been a fan. What's weird is that I want to be. I don't even find her all that attractive. It's that she's in so many movies that I figure she must be doing something right. The closest she's gotten to a unique role was in Marie Antoinette... and I kinda hated that flick, although it had more to do with Sofia Coppolla than anything.

Mary Jane is a fabulous character who should have been played by Bryce Dallas Howard from the start.

Marie Antoinette gave me a headache. This was one of those cases where the trailer was better than the movie. This makes two films now that Dunst and Coppola have made together (and Sofia's currently made three features).

And while I like the idea of Bryce as MJ, was she even doing film in 2000/2001, when the first one was in production? She would have been a total unknown, and I don't think Sony would risk casting an unknown in such a major role in a potential franchise they had been trying to get off the ground for years. Whereas Dunst already had a string of bankable films, from Interview with the Vampire to Jumanji to Bring It On to a serious role in The Virgin Suicides, directed by Sofia Coppola.

 

[dabauckham]

I'm in agreement with many of you about Kirsten Dunst - a bit whiney, definitely not the most attractive person to play the part. I know this is a somewhat controversial statement, but I once found her on a list of people that Hollywood expects us (the viewers) to find hot just because she's white. LOL!

But another problem (for me) with Mary Jane in the movies is that she is NOTHING like the original comic book depiction, in which MJ is funnier, sassier, foxier, and frankly, more empowered. She's also vulnerable, but she protects herself with her extroverted veneer, which I think makes for much more interesting characterization than the MJ in the movie. Conclusion: the original comic depiction of MJ blows the movie depiction out of the water.

I too have always liked Harry. There was an awesome story in Spectacular Spider-Man several years ago called "The Child Within" which dealt with Harry's tortured pysche and transformation into the Green Goblin. It was really well-written, much better than a lot of the current Spidey comics. All those scenes where Harry is talking to Norman in the mirror (from the second and third movies) are taken directly from this story-line, except that Peter Parker/Spider-Man also appears as a ghost in the comic, which adds to Norman's torment. It's really, really, REALLY interesting. And I agree that Franco did a great job in the role.

Winslow, to answer your question (is the resolution w. Harry/Peter satisfying?), my opinion is... not entirely, but mostly. This is mainly due to the quick slapped on info from Harry's butler about his father and Spiderman, which, if you think about it, doesn't really make sense. I'll elaborate below

***SPOILERS****

Harry's butler tells him that Green Goblin was killed by his own glider (due to the nature of the death wound, which he examined), which expnerates Spidey from killing him. But...that doesn't actually prove anything, does it? I mean, who's to say that Spiderman couldn't have killed him with his own weapon? I thought that was all a bit rushed and pat. That said, it was still cool to see the two of them forming an alliance finally. Though it some ways, it would have been much more interesting if Harry had stayed alive and we had seen how his relationship and Peter's had grown (or not grown).

**END SPOLERS***

Okay, I'll quit yakking. Let's keep working on that Ursula movie, gang!

 

[Winslow Leach]

I'm in agreement with many of you about Kirsten Dunst - a bit whiney, definitely not the most attractive person to play the part. I know this is a somewhat controversial statement, but I once found her on a list of people that Hollywood expects us (the viewers) to find hot just because she's white. LOL!

But another problem (for me) with Mary Jane in the movies is that she is NOTHING like the original comic book depiction, in which MJ is funnier, sassier, foxier, and frankly, more empowered. She's also vulnerable, but she protects herself with her extroverted veneer, which I think makes for much more interesting characterization than the MJ in the movie. Conclusion: the original comic depiction of MJ blows the movie depiction out of the water.

I too have always liked Harry. There was an awesome story in Spectacular Spider-Man several years ago called "The Child Within" which dealt with Harry's tortured pysche and transformation into the Green Goblin. It was really well-written, much better than a lot of the current Spidey comics. All those scenes where Harry is talking to Norman in the mirror (from the second and third movies) are taken directly from this story-line, except that Peter Parker/Spider-Man also appears as a ghost in the comic, which adds to Norman's torment. It's really, really, REALLY interesting. And I agree that Franco did a great job in the role.

Winslow, to answer your question (is the resolution w. Harry/Peter satisfying?), my opinion is... not entirely, but mostly. This is mainly due to the quick slapped on info from Harry's butler about his father and Spiderman, which, if you think about it, doesn't really make sense. I'll elaborate below

***SPOILERS****

Harry's butler tells him that Green Goblin was killed by his own glider (due to the nature of the death wound, which he examined), which expnerates Spidey from killing him. But...that doesn't actually prove anything, does it? I mean, who's to say that Spiderman couldn't have killed him with his own weapon? I thought that was all a bit rushed and pat. That said, it was still cool to see the two of them forming an alliance finally. Though it some ways, it would have been much more interesting if Harry had stayed alive and we had seen how his relationship and Peter's had grown (or not grown).

**END SPOLERS***

Okay, I'll quit yakking. Let's keep working on that Ursula movie, gang!

What? That "white" comment is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard!

Agreed. The feisty MJ of the comics is represented poorly on screen.

So I take it Willem Dafoe makes another cameo in pt. 3?

I have heard negative, critical comments all over the web about the butler scene. It appears to be somewhat controversial. I love the scene in part 2 towards the end, where Harry finds out the secret of his father. When I first saw it, this scene gave me chills, and left me wondering just what he was going to do with Norman's "secret," and the effect it would have on his relationship with Peter. I think the movie should have ended right there, with Harry brooding and tormented, instead of the one that was ultimately used, with MJ running out of her wedding. It would have been a much more powerful finale, IMHO.

 

[dabauckham]

I love the scene in part 2 towards the end, where Harry finds out the secret of his father. When I first saw it, this scene gave me chills, and left me wondering just what he was going to do with Norman's "secret," and the effect it would have on his relationship with Peter. I think the movie should have ended right there, with Harry brooding and tormented, instead of the one that was ultimately used, with MJ running out of her wedding. It would have been a much more powerful finale, IMHO.

I agree with all of that wholeheartedly! That scene with Harry finding out about his father was chilling, and well told. To be honest, I find the whole Harry/Green Goblin thing to be much more interesting and developed than the original Norman/Green Goblin. I just really hope that they never bring the original Green Goblin back from the dead the way they did in the comic. I mean, the guy DIED in the first movie. The way the comic brought him back seemed cheap and a lame excuse to try and sell more comics, which just don't sell the way they used to.

 

[dabauckham]

What? That "white" comment is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard!

Yeah, it is kinda odd, but someone put it out there! I'm not sure of the original source, but I believe it was some pop-culture magazine.

So I take it Willem Dafoe makes another cameo in pt. 3?

You betcha. And not to obsess, but I do think they make some interesting pyschological choices with Harry in the middle of the third movie. You'll see what I mean when you see it...

 

[SarahOnBway]

Yeah, Willem Dafoe has a little cameo, not as grand as his last one, but he appears in the mirror again. Oh, and you know how the opening credits of the 2nd movie summed up the first one in comic book form? (I love how they did that.) Well, the third one retells both movies in the opening credits through clips and his "Avenge me!" is there as well.

Yeah, I rolled my eyes at the butler scene. I just don't get it. It's stupid.

And as to if the end of the movie wrapped up the Peter/MJ/Harry storyline well... I'm gonna go with no. I felt like there was a lot more that could have been done, and it was too nicely wrapped up.

I don't read the comics, but thanks to wikipedia I know a good amount about what goes on in the Spider-Man comics and I find it odd that they had MJ from the beginning as Peter's love interest, even though Gwen Stacy was actually his first girlfriend. And didn't she die horrifically and it was unclear whether or not it was Peter or the fall that actually killed her?