Ask Ken at Palisades

[Luke]

kane31666 :- Yes i was referring to the Muppets in those paragraphs. I do think that the Muppet waves get obscurer and even more obscure as the line goes on. I think we probably need to see more recognisable characters along the way if these were to be the 'next big thing'. I'm not saying that the more obscure guys shouldn't be done but getting his research here Ken may well have been acidentally mislead that people who WE might consider as main characters may well be pretty much unknown to the majority of the public. Looking at the list - i think Waves 3 & 4 are really extremely obscure, but it gets slightly better when you see the extra Gonzo, Kermit and Nurse Piggy variants in the later waves.

Michael :-

Sorry for getting mixed up with what happened in the states with regards to the debut of the Simpsons, i'm in the UK and it was pretty different here. I do like the way they have redone Homer and Bart a lot, and i really do think that it was to keep the main characters visible - even if it did help that they were cheap to produce. The toy companies obviously want to attract new people to the lines all the way through the life of the line so having the major characters available is definitely a must.

I certainly wasn't decieving myself that all hardcore Muppet fans are on the net - in fact the figure on the net is probably less than the 600 i mentioned. Henson has actually employed people in the past to look into the fanbase on and off the net and realised how small it is - thats why we've not really seen any specialist products released from them, they have said 'off the record' that specialist muppet stuff doesn't sell. I didn't ignore general action figure collectors but at the same time, they can't really be depended on for continual support because if they aren't completitists then they'd just go off the minute something else hot comes along.

Quite possibly you are right that Palisades could keep the line running as long as they had a small number of dedicated people buying up every figure made but i'd hope that these will be popular with a more general market. There are over 60 retailers listed on the main MC site and i don't think it's a great idea to ignore the average joes just to ensure the hardcore fans and figure collectors get their obscure characters - if both markets can sell well, and the line is well promoted to the general public then we'll be sure to see a line with a long life rather than just hoping the 'net people' drag it along.

I know you'll probably disagree but then you own an action figure collecting site so i guess you would be one of the hardcore people who really base the whole action figure collecting ethos on being able to get all the obscure characters and would likely get bored with lots of variants - i don't think a small child would.

I guess it's just a case of keeping all parties happy !

 

[kane31666]

Beaker, I agree with you about pepe. About the McFarlane stuff, the people who buy those figures, and don't really buy them for playability. Most buy them and put them on display on shelves or in glass cases

 

[Michael Crawford]

Okay...

"Other than Kaybee, I can't think of any other mainstream toy retailers that fit your descriptions. If you can't or won't count EB or Suncoast/Musicland, because their primary focus isn't toys I'm not sure why your bring up WalMart and Target. If the discussion is about targetting the general public, I think having 2-3 locations in every major mall where these can be found does meet that purpose."

Actually, Wal-mart, Target, Meijers, Fred Meyers, and even poor K-mart order far more action figures than either the Musicland family or EB.

Perhaps this will put it in perspective - Wal-mart gets pallets of toys at at time, shipped through their own major distribution system. An EB store gets a case of something once or twice a week delivered by the Airborne Express guy along with the rest of the mail.

"Secondly, I think there are a lot more "average kids and parents" in places like EB and Suncoast then there are collectors. "

You may think that, but I've never seen them. Kids go to EB or Media Play to buy video games. They drag their parents to the KB two doors down to buy action figures. I have never seen a kid looking at the action figures in either place, but collectors all know that both places are a good opportunity to get figures.

"I guess I'm still not sure what the problem is with selling to people who normally never buy action figures. It seems to me a strategy of trying to increase the potential market is a good one."

Because there isn't one strategy that works for both. They are two distinctly different markets. There's nothing wrong with focusing on one, and picking up a little extra in the other where possible, but if you try to focus on both you tend to upset them both.

"I know you'll probably disagree but then you own an action figure collecting site so i guess you would be one of the hardcore people who really base the whole action figure collecting ethos on being able to get all the obscure characters and would likely get bored with lots of variants - i don't think a small child would."

Again, I don't think too many small children are going to be buying these figures. But you've assumed to much about me - I like any character, as long as it makes sense and fits with the show. I think there are wonderful variants, and I completely understand the business needs to doing them as well.

Here's a WOS example - something like the Stonecutter Homer or the B-Sharps Homer are excellent variants that I'm very happy to see produced. Something like the truly ridiculous and silly Toyfare exclusive Comic Book Guy, who had nothing but a new t-shirt paint job, is a waste of my money, and I'm not happy about.

Variants can be great - the VC Beaker is an excellent example of a really cool Muppet variant, as is Dr. Bob. I'll be buying all the Muppets figures, but then I'm insane.

Michael
MWC

 

[frogboy4]

Here's My Take

Luke, Michael and others

This is really more of a collectors line though it is also being marketed to the public and Palisades seems very mindful of that so far. When I say collectors line I mean in a general sense of Muppet collecors, the action figure collectors and the nostalgia enthisiast. This takes up a lot more people than I think is being credited here. I see the general public maybe taking up half the slack for this line, but no more than that really. I hear so much talk about Macfarlane toys, but except for Spawn, the general public couldn't tell you who the heck the guy is and his line is successful. He doesn't even have a show anymore (but comics of course). Just my observation.

The fact that the minor characters are produced a fraction of the quantity of the big guns helps sales. I'm actually concerned that there will be too many Gonzos and Kermits on the shelves! We'll see on that.

I think it's a fantastic idea for the figures to have some sort of Muppeteer signing and I'm sure there will be a Palisades booth at the next Fest for that very reason. Sales would go through the roof!

I agree with Ken that this line at least has 9 more series in it - and once that's over they can make film exclusives or work or another Henson project I hope.

BTW - the nuber of memebers here reads 416 currently. Woohoo! Still not as much as the Simpsons but let them be off the air for 20 years and see how their popularity holds up. might be about the same.

 

[Michael Crawford]

Other stuff

Luke - no problem. Being in the UK can alter the distribution and selling of stuff, and alter what you see on your end.

I'd love to see how JH came up with the numbers for 'hardcore fans'. I suspect it was seriously flawed. I'd love to know more about their definition of 'hard core' and how they did the analysis. In a country of 300 million people, I suspect there's more than 1000 serious Muppet collectors.

Now, when they say Muppet merchandise doesn't sell, it's possible that they aren't paying enough attention to WHAT merchandise. If you take items that are supposed to be 'serious' - let's say my home phone - and try to get me to buy a Kermit version, I'm unlikely to bite. But now they've ventured into action figures, an area which is already populated by tens of thousands of collectors who are already comfortable with the fact that they buy items considered 'childish'.

The best action figure lines are those that tap into the nostalgia of people that already love to collect action figures. For example, something like the Simpsons, or Star Wars, does tremendously well because people grew up with these things to begin with. Something like Reservoir Dogs or Tomb Raider, while it sounds cool, doesn't tap into people's memories well enough to sustain big sales.

The Muppets was a great idea for action figures, and I think you're going to see an awful lot of toy collectors who aren't hardcore Muppets fans buying all of these. And while you might think that action figure collectors move on when the next hot thing comes out, you'd be wrong most of the time. Kids do - it's why making toys for kids is so hard. Scalpers do - they just want the 'hot' item to make money off of. But collectors sustain lines like the Simpsons, Star Trek or Star Wars over years because they have an attachment to the property.

And once you have all that plastic in your house, the fumes start to do things to your brain.

Michael
MWC

 

[Drtooth]

I think I can speak for a number of people when I suggest these toys

Karate Piggy? Good idea! I never actually seen her in a karate suit though, but maybe it can have a karate chop.

How about Biker Piggy? Like in the "I get around" Music video on the show (I can't recal what episode, but it's on the Buena Vista Meet the Muppets tape). Or maybe like the Great Muppet Caper?

Buearaguard the janitor (If you havn't thought of him yet) with a mop and bucket or something.

Lips! Then we can have the entire Electric mayheim!

I hear of a Koosbanie Reporter Kermit playset. How about if you make the Press hat's sign removable, and include a magnifying glass as well as a microphone. Now you have Detective Kermit. It's two toys in one!!!

There is loose talk of a Dr. BOb and Nurse Piggy down the line. But no Nurse Janice?

Bear on Patrol Fozzie and Link (You can make them exclusives, so the collectors will buy them)

Another Beaker. Like a blown up beaker, or one with an open mouth. Maybe with extendo legs, like on a Muppet Labs segment.

 

[radionate]

Originally posted by Drtooth
Buearaguard the janitor (If you havn't thought of him yet) with a mop and bucket or something.


There is loose talk of a Dr. BOb and Nurse Piggy down the line. But no Nurse Janice?

Bear on Patrol Fozzie and Link (You can make them exclusives, so the collectors will buy them)

Drtooth,

A Beau and Nurse Janice are both already in the lineup. There is also talk of a Bear on Patrol Fozzie and Link!

 

[Drtooth]

what are the items that come with Janice and Sam the Eagle? If you don't have any yet may I suggest:

Sam should come with a podium with a Sam the Eagle or Muppet show logo on it, and an American flag to drape near by.

Janice should come with a microphone, obviously, but maybe a tamborine or something?

 

[frogboy4]

Drtooth

Eeeek! LOL! I'm not sure why this information has escaped your attention - it has been discussed in depth, but here's the skinny-

Biker Piggy - a very possible fave of Ken and popular with many members.

Exploded Beaker - there will be a vanishig cream Beaker exclusive, but there is also talk of an Exploded Beaker in 2003 or 2004. I don't think he'll be an exclusive because of possible popularity.

Beauregard - will come with a mop etc in series 5 a year from now. It's still tentative, but this has been stated many times for quite a few months.

The Koozebane set with Kermit is also planned series 5. I'm sure his hat will be removeable.

Nurse Janice is likely slated to come with the Vets playest. The others will be in the regular assortment - all likely 2003 releases, but nothing has been confirmed.

Bear on Patrol Fozzie already has a sculpt and will likely come out with the playset in 2003. He was going to come out this year, but was changed due to complaints about being considered for an exclusive.

Lips is one that I hope they make and Ken is aware of his popularity with many fans around here. Karate Piggy would be cool for 2004 sometime. We may be Piggy-ed out with 2 versions this year and up to 3 next year.

Hope this helped. Check my online chart on information. Much of 1-5 is a lock. The rest are still in the air. It is very current. http://www.jamesvier.com/muppets/figures/

 

[Drtooth]

Hey Froggy!!!
I cheacked out your site. My post after that one (Janice's and Sam's accessories) is now Null and Void!!! Apparently, I was beaten to the punch!