An Editorial: The State of the Muppets

[Foreignman]

Really really great editorial Annika, I totally agree with you on most of these issues, you've put into words beautifully many of my own opinions. As for the whole Disney issue, I'm more on Annika's side right now. I want Disney to of bought the Muppets in 1995... And I think their will be a time in the future, hopefully soon, when Eisner's reign of terror will be through, and a creative/imaginative new president will come in. Walt Disney was so succesful because he didn't worry about money, Roy did, and so he was able to use his creative and imaginative powers to give birth to some of the happiest places on earth, as well as many great pieces of entertainment. Eisner has alway worried about money, but there was a time when he was more concentrated on the creative and imaginative aspects of the job then the ones dealing with the money. Now he is almost all money-concerned, and quick-money (not a good thing) too. So as I said before, I can picture a time in the future when I'd love for Disney to own the Muppets, however, that time is not now.

 

[Luke]

Originally posted by MuppetQuilter
Luke makes an interesting point about hands on management. Hafta think about that. I guess the key is to find a company that truly understands and respects the Muppets and is not out to just milk them for all they can and toss 'em aside.

This is the thing - there basically isn't a company aroud that fits the bill - in my view, Disney is the closest. Thats why they are my 'best choice' out of what is available. I think Henson should have a degree of independance on the creative side, but it's the business side that they pretty much suck at sometimes and thats the main area where they need a company with the ability to run things and sort them out. Promotion too is a weak area at the Henson company that if left, would cause problems. International distribution even - when that was under Henson control programme sales were not as great as they are now while it's being handled externally by EMTV. Saying that - even the creative side needs a kick up the butt sometimes too.

 

[beaker]

wow!

I wasnt expecting to see posted thee most timely and articulated piece on the state of Muppetdom today. wow. All the points hit like notes on a symphony...what may have sounded like wanton banter at one point from me and others has been skillfully written into a great point by point article.

From what defines the Muppets, to the points on MFS I and many others had, to the prospects of a buyout...and of course more recently the thinning of piggy and the recent inhouse shakeup at jhc(brian henson and downsizing)

I remember endless dialogue between people at Muppetfest on the state of the Muppets...now 8 months later were starting to see two distinct things emerging: a resurgence, or at least an attempt at resurgense into the media spotlight and entertainment, as well as merchandise. A *very* kiddy preschool orientated special release(KSY) yet a promising family NBC movie. But then were seeing this great uncertianty company wise, as the CEO and downsizing of the inhouse builders and staff...hmmm very odd.

I agree with absolutely 100% of the article. The Piggy thing...hmm, I seriously didnt notice her 'downsizing', I thought she looked GREAT in the Denny's thing and didnt notice any dramatic weight loss tho. But what the article said about image.

Also, Disney. One one hand they rose to the occation to come up with th ebest darn Muppet plushes ever(IMHO, I mean they came out with non main 5 ones!!!) but what Disney can also do to a brand...hmmm.

Muppetfest 2003 will of course be the G8 world summit of all things JHC related...but it could be this December when we might hear of something big company related. Either wya, we await with baited breath, and Annika's article captures than uncertainty.

 

[Luke]

Re: wow!

Originally posted by beaker
what may have sounded like wanton banter at one point from me and others has been skillfully written into a great point by point article.

Gee Cory - you say the greatest things about us sometimes man !

I think to be honest, i wouldn't be particularly waiting for December for an announcement. I think EM(TV) have a clear strategy in selling the Muppets - they know exactly when they want it to happen and probably have a great idea of who to. The 'long wait' is very advatageous to them right now because the company is actually making money.

While i think all the points are great, and good on Anika for writing, and it'd be cool to see much more from her on that scale. We really need additional 'guest' writers who have some inside knowledge of what is really going on at the Henson company - from people like us on the outside, it's all speculation but for someone close to the inside - are things really THAT up in the air at Henson and EMTV ?

From all the moves i'ver seen over the last year or two it looks to me (IMO) that all parties know exactly what they're doing !

 

[murgatoad]

While I enjoyed reading the opinions here, I must say that some of you need to look beyond your own Muppet myopia and consider how the *general public* views the Muppets. And in that regard, slimming down Miss Piggy is perhaps the best idea Henson has come up with in years. Maybe some of you don't remember, maybe some of you never got it, but what made Piggy so wildly popular in the glory days of the original "Muppet Show" was not because people saw her as a fat joke - it was because millions of people bought into "the idea of a beautiful pig" (Jim Henson's own words). And in this society, fat is not synonymous with beauty. It wasn't back in the '70's and it certainly isn't now. Furthermore, fat is becoming more and more taboo as a source of humor. Miss Piggy's only hope of revival as a character is to rejuvenate the "beautiful pig" idea. It was that hilarious incongruity that made her special. Slimming her down a bit is a step in the right direction. MY worries about the Pig is whether or not the designers at the Henson Co. have the skill to bring back her looks completely. They certainly don't have the skill of the original puppet builders during the "Muppet Show" days. (And BTW, Piggy NEVER looked fat during those days, nor did she in most of the Miss Piggy calendars. I have a Miss Piggy Poster Book that belonged to my sister, and Piggy is FAR slimmer in some of those calendar pictures than she is in that picture of her in the editorial. She only got really chunky-looking later on- when, interestingly enough, her popularity began to fade). Piggy looked downright ugly in "The Muppet Christmas Carol", marginally better in "Treasure Island", and it's been up and down since then. (I didn't bother to see "Muppets In Space", so I can't comment about the Piggy used in that). She still looks too heavy in the "Denny's" commercial, and her hair looks bad. IMO Henson needs to go back and study the Piggy's of "The Muppet Show"'s latter years and learn what worked visually with that character. And it would also help, from a performance point of view, if this Eric fella would do more with the character than imitate Frank Oz.

I'd like to be a Muppet fan again, but I don't really see that happening if I can't enjoy watching Piggy. And FWIW, I didn't much enjoy watching her in the Weezer video. But I DID enjoy the article in "People" magazine. Piggy came off as snappy but sweet. That's the direction Eric ought to go in IMO.

Thanks for reading.

 

[beaker]

>>Gee Cory - you say the greatest things about us sometimes man ! <<<

well, what can i say? i think some of the points in there i have made in the past, but they were mired in my usual uneven rants, hehe. it was just great to see these points articulated so well.

want it to happen and probably have a great idea of who to. The 'long wait' is very advatageous to them right now because the company is actually making money.<<<<<<<<

well, that '25th annv carrot' as some have said, can only last so long.

>>>We really need additional 'guest' writers who have some inside knowledge of what is really going on at the Henson company - from people like us on the outside, it's all speculation but for someone close to the inside - are things really THAT up in the air at Henson and EMTV ?<<<

well from our point of view, yes. however, im not sure if we could on MC or anywhere else see some kind of internal reflection...maybe after the deal is done, but do you really think at this curcial stage an 'insider' is gonna leak potential harmful stuff? (by harmful i mean sensitive, not ready to be released just yet info, or discrediting views)

From all the moves i'ver seen over the last year or two it looks to me (IMO) that all parties know exactly what they're doing !<<<

like one giant foam and fur chess game! hehe

 

[Luke]

Hey Cory

Yes it is indeed very much a case of the 25th anniversary carrot - but the money will still be pouring in (well - dribbling at least) to the middle of next year. Revenue takes time.

As for the 'inside views' - i didn't mean people actually inside JHC - there are plenty of people outside who have a good idea about whats really happening. Two people who spring to mind are Philip and Michael - Phil just happened to casually mention a while back how some internal changes had been made to accomodate Fox as a potential bidder, i'm sure that news didn't just drop outa the sky. There are plenty of others who know things (and i'm fully guilty of this too sometimes) and just don't or can't post them, but if stuff was known it would clear up a lot of wrong rumours on the board.

Now in everyones defence, most of the time this comes down to not mentioning things because they have been told in confidence or they would affect negotiations still happening. For instance, a number of us here know about ANOTHER planned Muppet special TV show in the works, but we can't (or at least - i'd hope we wouldn't) mention it here IF things are still early days with the companies involved because fans start writing or calling in and then we hear no more about it.

So basically i understand it but it would be good if we saw more articles from people like Phillip (it IS his site) dropping whatever info can be dropped into articles and things. Guests too though - Anika made a great article writer and it'd be good to see more stuff coming from members of the board.

 

[beaker]

>>>There are plenty of others who know things (and i'm fully guilty of this too sometimes) and just don't or can't post them, but if stuff was known it would clear up a lot of wrong rumours on the board<<<

well, what ever it is...Im sure its not absolute red alert pressing...
as whatever finally goes down, its possible we might not know til someone posts a link to hollywood reporter or the usual fan scoop. sure someone might leak something prior, but it usually happens to where we do the daily click on headlines and BOOM! theres the news with a hundred replies to the thread^_^

>>>Now in everyones defence, most of the time this comes down to not mentioning things because they have been told in confidence or they would affect negotiations still happening. <<<

thats exactly what i was saying, how people might not post due to confidentiality or hampering negotiations. the last thing we need is a bungled or snafu'd thing due to fan leaks!

For instance, a number of us here know about ANOTHER planned Muppet special TV show in the works, but we can't (or at least - i'd hope we wouldn't) mention it here IF things<<<

its ok. it sucks to think over zealous fans would inundate a company about a leak...some react before thinking.
sometimes fan insider knowlege turns out to be a red herring.
look at the i love the bbc special. we pretty much all knew about it, but becuase it was uk only most on here didnt seem that interested. same with a few other things from last year or early this year.

 

[AnthonyF3]

I don't really have anything to add (and don't think I'd be able to even if I wanted to), but I just love reading threads like this. So informative to a guy who's been out of the loop for like a year.

Crazy, Man

Zoot

Whatever.

 

[MuppetQuilter]

Just a brief clarification-- I don't think Piggy was ever fat. But she wasn't skinny. She was chubby. Big difference between chubby and fat.

I also don't think her weight has been used as a joke. I think her attitude about her body image has been used to get laughs (the karate chop to anyone who is snide about her looks).

I don't like the idea that someone has to be skinny to be viewed as beautiful, or even attractive. That's just wrong. I think Piggy should stand up for herself and insist she be accepted, admired, and appreciated for who she is as she is-- I don't want to see her slimmed down into a shell of her former self.

Just my view