A thought on the use of the word "comeback"

[matleo]

What ended up happening, as DW and Luke have pointed out, was that Disney kept swapping out Muppet Studio leadership and aborting plans; so any starts to this point had the plug pulled on them.

That's not necessarily a bad thing. Remember these are the same people who gave the "complete" first season of the Muppet Show! or better yet The Muppet Cruise line shows!

--Matt

 

[dwayne1115]

here is something to think about. For the past few years when the Muppets have made any kind of apperace on a show, it would be Kermit Piggy Fozzie Gonzo, Rizzo, and Peppe. A lot of real die hard fans where starting to miss some of the other classic Muppets such as the band, Rowlf Swish chef. Bunsun and Beaker, and several others. Then they started Muppets.com, and had a whole lot of videos of the main ones i stated. Then something started happening we started seeing Chef Bunsan, Beaker, and others pop up on Muppets.com. Then shortly after that some of the less populare Muppets got there own Youtube, and Myspace pages with some wonderful videos, inculding one two with Ol' brown ears himself Rowlf. The Youtube profiles where so huge that they even won Beaker a Webby award, for Ode to Joy. This would more then likely have been the first time that any Muppet besides Kermit or Piggy won anything.
Then we had Letters to Santa which had speaking parts for a lot of our old frirends who have been silent for way to long, and they not only spoke, but it felt like the prefromers really had most of the voices down. Letters to Santa also brought back and old friend to the Muppets Paul Williams, who not only wrote four song for the show he also guest started in it as well. Letters to Santa did good with the rateings eough so that one of the songs was up for an emmy. The Muppets have not won an Emmy in a long time so that to was also huge.
Not to mettion the two shows of Studio DC almost live, where we got to see the Muppets joined with the Disney channel stars, and Green and Red, Christmas which also won an award. It to featuerd some of the Muppets who have not been heard in some time doing what the Muppets do best singing christmas songs.
To me with all this that I have said, and a lot more things have happended with the Muppets in just the past three years, but I really think that this is a comeback. Not for all the Muppets, but for a lot of them.

 

[beaker]

@Dr Tooth:

After seeing your posts for years, I'm convinced you have some sort of telepathic link to my mind...analogies, ways I phrase things, little subtle nuances...it's eerie!

Also, Also of the last four major Muppet projects (MFS, VMX, OZ, and LTS.....what the heck let's throw KSY in there too!...Of the last FIVE major projects the only one I've really really enjoyed and could watch over and over again is LTS. Which is the only one that's less then 45 min. I'd rather see them build on that with another special then try to outdo that and discover they couldn't.

It's so weird you should mention that, regarding the last 5
movies/projects/specials. LTS to me is also the only one I could see watching over and over. MFS is second, as I dig the MST3K commentary on it, and the first 20 minutes of MFS I feel is solid.
I don't think I'd ever watch Oz or KSY again(well, aside from the Joe The Armadillo behind the scenes extra)
VMMCM I'm torn on...I love how we see for the first time in AGES
a Muppet theater. We even get the Bossmen. It feels big, while unfortunately also feeling like it's all filmed on cluttered little sets. There's aspects of VMX I really dig.
But LTS is the only one I feel that has a true magical feel, and if that or muppets.com/youtube is a nod to the future of Muppets...I could not be more jubilated.

I'm not saying I'm not excited for the movie at all. I'm just saying I'm more excited about the watching the learning curve I think they're putting themselves on to get there. I tihnk it was an interview with Dave Goelz (or maybe it was Steve) who said the early internet stuff was really just them getting back together and relearning how to do it

Oh totally...and good way of wording it. I was skeptical, after the hit and miss "From the Balcony" sketches...but my goodness, from the first batch of Muppets.com skits I was blown away and hooked(if only there was a way to download these suckers!)
I could totally see the Muppets having a 30 minute live call in show at MTV studios in Time Square(like the old Carson Daly on MTV thing) with Pepe and Rizzo interviewing random people on the street, and guests. I really am hoping they're crafting a truly revolutionary and fun new tv show...or heck, a couple of different concepts.

Maybe that's what I look to 2010 as being. Not so much of a 'comeback' persay, but a tremendous period of growth for the muppet family of characters and their handlers. I think we've eseen some good stuff in the last year or two and I think it's going to get better, but I think we're on the uphill swing of the learning curve. and THAT's what I'm excited about right now.

Oh it's so exciting. Haha, leave it to the long time MC posters I look up to the most(Luke, DW, Frogboy, Kevin, you, etc)
to succinctly and cogently word things so well.

I would really point to the launch of the modern day Muppets.com sketches, the 2008 youtube sketches(like the one featuring Rowlf and Rizzo), the Muppets take over Today(This NEEDS to be seen by every Muppet fan), then of course Letters to Santa and Bohemian Rhapsody as the "modern era of Muppets". It's definitely exciting to watch. (and if they EVER bring back Digit, I think I'd faint)

BTW: I have not seen the D23 day one or two Muppet footage, save for a few clips...were those good performances?

 

[beaker]

here is something to think about. For the past few years when the Muppets have made any kind of apperace on a show, it would be Kermit Piggy Fozzie Gonzo, Rizzo, and Peppe. A lot of real die hard fans where starting to miss some of the other classic Muppets such as the band, Rowlf Swish chef. Bunsun and Beaker, and several others. Then they started Muppets.com, and had a whole lot of videos of the main ones i stated. Then something started happening we started seeing Chef Bunsan, Beaker, and others pop up on Muppets.com. Then shortly after that some of the less populare Muppets got there own Youtube, and Myspace pages with some wonderful videos, inculding one two with Ol' brown ears himself Rowlf. The Youtube profiles where so huge that they even won Beaker a Webby award, for Ode to Joy. This would more then likely have been the first time that any Muppet besides Kermit or Piggy won anything.
Then we had Letters to Santa which had speaking parts for a lot of our old frirends who have been silent for way to long, and they not only spoke, but it felt like the prefromers really had most of the voices down. Letters to Santa also brought back and old friend to the Muppets Paul Williams, who not only wrote four song for the show he also guest started in it as well. Letters to Santa did good with the rateings eough so that one of the songs was up for an emmy. The Muppets have not won an Emmy in a long time so that to was also huge.
Not to mettion the two shows of Studio DC almost live, where we got to see the Muppets joined with the Disney channel stars, and Green and Red, Christmas which also won an award. It to featuerd some of the Muppets who have not been heard in some time doing what the Muppets do best singing christmas songs.
To me with all this that I have said, and a lot more things have happended with the Muppets in just the past three years, but I really think that this is a comeback. Not for all the Muppets, but for a lot of them.

I LOVE the focus on the second, third, and fourth tier obscure characters! I mean Beauregard and Big Mean Carl have really been out and center these days...who would have guessed?
And Bobo the Bear, as always stealing the show on LTS,
Muppets Take Over Today, Muppets.com, etc.

Lips being officially back is "whoah".

Newsman being featured on a number of hidden Muppets.com sketches, and being seen in BoRhap was pure gold.

Scooter as of Bohemian Rhapsody FINALLY has his voice back.
And both Rowlf and Scooter have been getting used a lot more.

Now Beaker, I see him like the Boba Fett of the Muppet fan world. This kind of cult character that's become this huge
larger than life personality with a lot of people. I think Disney would do very well to really exploit the Beaker love. Same with Swedish Chef; both he and Beaker are like these huge underground pop culture icons.

 

[Drtooth]

See maybe this is wehre we differ most. I'm just a bit more excited about this than the movie. For starters, I think it's more likely to happen and also more likely to happen in 2010. And second, like i said, I think it gives the replacement performers a chance to grow into the characters a bit so that when they get to doing a movie we (the fans) are bit more comfortable with Floyd, janice, Scooter, Robin, Lew, Rowlf, etc. You know, it's one thing for them to invest a into a 45 min. tv special and have us go "I like it but thought (insert favorite character here) sounded really off to me." versus Disney investing tons of money into a project , us paying to see it and saying "Wait where's my favorite character! This isn't the Muppets! I can't believe I spent money on this!"

I don't even remember me saying that... If I said it at all. I am excited for a Halloween special. Anything besides Christmas. There's enough Muppety Christmas stuff to go around. I say, we have Muppets make specials for every holiday possible. Half hour ones, preferably.

Secondly, I hate when people whine and moan about how minor characters who we haven't seen aren't featured every five seconds and how we haven't seen them in years and then moan even more "Oh, THAT'S how they sound?" I personally have a lot more respect than that. This isn't making Bugs Bunny voices for a cereal commercial. You just can't call up any voice actor and say "BAM! You're Bugs!" It's a long process of seeing who is most available, who can grasp the characters the most, and finally who sounds the most remotely like them. That's why characters bounce around from performer to performer before landing on someone who has a better handle. And that's provided he's available. If they didn't recast a single character, all we'd be stuck with is Gonzo, Rizzo and Pepe. All having to play off each other. I'm sorry, but I'm one of those bold fans that wants to see someone get the character right over the voices.

Also, Also of the last four major Muppet projects (MFS, VMX, OZ, and LTS.....what the heck let's throw KSY in there too!...Of the last FIVE major projects the only one I've really really enjoyed and could watch over and over again is LTS. Which is the only one that's less then 45 min. I'd rather see them build on that with another special then try to outdo that and discover they couldn't.

Honestly, there were a lot of flaws in those three projects. MFS had a perfectly good script ruined by a terrible director, VMX came off with too many pop culture jokes (they had a Simpsons writer working on that) and NBC promos. As far as Oz goes tell me something that did go right with that embarrassment. It was a poor idea and poor script to begin with, especially since we had all these better, funnier scripts that never got past the consideration stage. I would have loved to have seen the Kermit Prince of Denmark movie than another lame Wizard of Oz retelling. Especially one that had the quality of a bad Saturday Morning 5 minute cartoon parody for 90 minutes. And I love LTS, but I for one think it was way too short. I still say it felt like watching the first half hour of a movie and the last half hour of the movie, and you missed something in between. Seems that there should have been more play with the other characters feeling guilty about not going to the pole with everyone else.

 

[matleo]

I don't even remember me saying that... If I said it at all. I am excited for a Halloween special. Anything besides Christmas. There's enough Muppety Christmas stuff to go around. I say, we have Muppets make specials for every holiday possible. Half hour ones, preferably.

sorry I was going off something that Cory (Beaker) had said. That actually wasn't directed at you.

 

[Drtooth]

That's alright... I was more worried I said something I didn't remember saying.

 

[dwmckim]

But seriously, I think one of the things people are most excited about here is the movie and I don't think we're going to see that in 2010. I was thinking about this last night and in order to have the movie in 2010 it would have to come out later in the year when they've also got the halloween special planned. Which means two things. 1) they'd have to be filmed pretty much back-to-back. and B) they'd end up being released at about the same time. Which to me, would be overkill.

I don't see this as unrealistic at all. The Muppets had both a movie and a special out at the same time with The Muppet Movie/The Muppets Go Hollywood, Great Muppet Caper/The Muppets Go to the Movies (in both these cases the specials were a promo tool for the respective movie), they went right from working on Muppet Treasure Island to Muppets Tonight, they did two movies in 1999 - MFS and Elmo In Grouchland (yes, that was Sesame but many of the same people were involved with both). Heck going back to 1979 not only did they do TMM and Hollywood but also while working on another season of The Muppet Show and ANOTHER special, John Denver and the Muppets Christmas.

This brings me to something that's also largely held the Muppets back in the last decade which i see as being different now. Whenever the Muppets (whoever owned them) were working on a big project, they typically made the mistake of wrapping it up and then WAITING to see and measure how it performed before deciding which direction to go next - which leads to VERY long lagtimes between projects - and then the momentum has to be built all over again.

Instead they need to always be a step (if not several) steps ahead, planning other major and secondary projects and getting the pre-production mechanism in place at the same time a major work is being filmed. I really believe that's what's now going on behind the scenes at Disney - they've got their Strategy on! The downside is that in our modern society where we're all connected and hear the latest news right when it comes out as opposed waiting for a magazine or newsletter to be published, lots of plans may mean lots of things we may hear leaked or talked about that don't happen. When you pre-plan the next projects while you're working on a biggie, it means that you're prepared to go into something right away without too much lagtime between - but these are plans (albeit realistic ones) and are subject to change based on what ends up being right when you reach the wrapup of Project A. So that may mean fans hearing about potential projects ahead of time and being disppointed when some of them don't happen. I think right now this is Disney's business model with the Muppets but they're being very tightlipped on lots of stuff til they're sure each thing is a "go".

 

[frogboy4]

A film is never done until it's in the can and the reels (digital or traditional) are on the way to the cineplex. That said...

Disney has spent much of 2009 (and some of 2008) putting forth steady drumbeat of Muppety goodness in pop culture. They're setting the stage for opportunity for this attempt rather than tossing Kermit & company into the deep end and hoping they'll miraculously make it.

Things are rough for everybody (including Disney) right now. There's a belt-tightening across the entertainment board. Will this benefit or hurt the Muppets? Will it make no difference? The Muppets are a good example of a property that can get a lot of bang for its buck if marketed properly. That's being done now. Much of the promotional devices are cost effective and actually reach more people.

I envision that the Halloween special next year will be a good opportunity to promote a film coming the following year (2011). It appears the Halloween special is likely to happen. I guess that's my first focus as a fan. After that we'll see. I'm optimistic.

 

[Drtooth]

All I'm saying is if Disney can theatrically release that terrible Underdog movie.. a movie nobody asked for and nobody wanted.. they can make a muppet theatrical film.