What is your least favorite Muppet Movie?

[D'Snowth]

Another thing to remember too, is that Jim pretty much gave everybody who worked for him a great deal of their own creative control: he may have had a vision for something, but he let others take that vision, and turn them into something special. In fact, so many of the characters we know and love today are the results of the individual performers taking them and breathing their own life into them... I really can't think of a whole lot of characters (save for maybe Big Bird and Oscar the Grouch), where Jim himself figured out all of the details of how he wanted them to behave, act, sound, etc.

 

[dwayne1115]

I have been watching Muppets Tonight season 2 on Youtube, and I have to say they really seemd to be getting in the grove of the show. It was just as zany or even zannier as the Muppet Show. Yes it did lack some classic Muppets at times, but I really think they where getting more of a mix near the end of the show. they had it, but ABD/Disney did not know what they had and sadly it did not get more of a chance.

 

[Slackbot]

Crud I had a post typed out, hit post, got an error message, and when I hit back everything I typed was gone. Forget you, board software code.

I really can't think of a whole lot of characters (save for maybe Big Bird and Oscar the Grouch), where Jim himself figured out all of the details of how he wanted them to behave, act, sound, etc.

Actually, according to Spinney's The Wisdom of Big Bird, Henson didn't have Big Bird's role figured out at the start. Originally Big Bird was a village idiot type. It was Spinney who, after filming a scene in which the bird threw a tantrum because he couldn't go to daycare, hit on the idea of playing Big Bird as a child instead of a doofus.

A significant part of Jim Henson's genius was his ability to find the right people, put them in the right spot, then turn them loose and let them do their thing. He cultivated creativity, not control. Sadly, this is not an approach I foresee Disney ever taking.

(Copying post, just in case the board software eats it again)

 

[Drtooth]

Really? I'm amazed that you like it. Aside from the pet store number, I got absolutely no Muppety vibe from KSY. It's nothing more than a poorly constructed disposable home video for toddlers.

The funny thing is this:

http://muppet.wikia.com/wiki/Frog_School

It was meant to be a preschool TV series, but it was turned into a preschool movie. It had preschool written all over it even before the film came out. It was yet another in a long line of preschool Muppet projects like Muppets on Wheels and the Preschool Play Along videos. The difference is, it looks like KSY was trying to wear the disguise of a family movie, instead of a movie-ified unrealized TV show for preschoolers. I have to admit, I've never been a big fan of the Preschool Muppet projects. Muppet Babies was less juvenile than some of them. Though, and I can't stress this enough, Wow you're a cartoonist for Picklepuss and Pops. Only redeeming value.

I see what you mean. I think the Muppetverse should leave the kids' market to Elmo. I'm not a huge fan of him, but he has his place and he does his thing without resorting to overly cutesy means. There's somewhat of bite to him while Kermit in KSY is all gums.

Well, arguably Kermit was pretty toothless in MFS, probably more so. Kermit was only in MFS for brand recognition. While I think Sweet Kermit is very present in MCC, and Kermit had bouts of Kermit as Kermit in MTI, it really wasn't until VMX where he came back. Those were problems with writing, MFS especially.

 

[D'Snowth]

Actually, according to Spinney's The Wisdom of Big Bird, Henson didn't have Big Bird's role figured out at the start. Originally Big Bird was a village idiot type. It was Spinney who, after filming a scene in which the bird threw a tantrum because he couldn't go to daycare, hit on the idea of playing Big Bird as a child instead of a doofus.

That was pretty much my point: no, his vision of Big Bird isn't the same Big Bird we know and love today, but still, Jim had pretty much figured out how he thought he wanted Big Bird to turn out: he wanted Big Bird to be sort of a village idiot, big and dopey, with that deep, silly-sounding voice... that's one of the very rare examples I can think of where he figured out the details of a character beforehands, as opposed to just letting the performers do their own thing with them (even though we know Caroll eventually decided to take Big Bird in another direction for the better).

 

[Slackbot]

Point taken, But mine also stands: Jim let the performer take the character in a different direction when he thought better. I can't see Disney letting the performers have that much freedon.

 

[Drtooth]

To be fair, the Muppets Disney owns are well established characters. Any case of Flanderization or character rot already happened with post-Jim films. Other than the Moopets and Walter, who are creations of the film writers, Disney isn't going to muck about with the characters too much. If anything, they'll be intent on freezing the characters as we know them. And considering Fozzie's slide to stupid town in MTI- MFS, that's not really a bad thing.

But no matter what, a character is created both by the series runner and the actor. Muppets, TV characters, cartoons... Look at how much Nemoy shaped the character of Spock to the extent of changing stories that didn't reflect his interpretation of the character. Big Bird becoming a fuller character is no different than Miss Piggy becoming one. Actually, Piggy's situation was almost worse. She was flipped around between two performers, but when Frank Oz ad libbed a Karate chop, the character grew ever since.

But that's the difference between established and upcoming characters. When an established character changes oh so little, they become out of character and they're "urined forever."

 

[Princeton]

I just don't get the "X didn't have enough screentime" complaint when this film gave characters that never had screentime their first major film roles.

And if you think Statler and Waldorf were bad in TM, they were downright hateful as the Kalidahs in Moz.

What characters got this luxury besides Uncle Deadly? And how was the Kalidahs scene any different than their heckles on TMS?

 

[D'Snowth]

For the halibut, here's how I rate each of the Muppets movies, both theatrical and TV, based on the traditional four-star movie rating system:

The Muppet Movie (1979) - ****
The Great Muppet Caper (1981) - ****
The Muppets Take Manhattan (1984) - ****
The Muppet Christmas Carol (1992) - ***
Muppet Treasure Island (1996) - ****
Muppets From Space (1999) - ***
Kermit's Swamp Years (TV, 2002) - ***
It's a Very Merry Muppet Christmas Movie (TV, 2002) - *
The Muppets' Wizard of Oz (TV, 2005) - **1/2
The Muppets (2011) - ****

 

[Muppet fan 123]

Muppets Wizard of Oz is my absolute worst. Followed by Muppets From Space.
I haven't seen KSY yet, I plan to as soon as I get my hands on a copy of those.

For the halibut, here's how I rate each of the Muppets movies, both theatrical and TV, based on the traditional four-star movie rating system:

The Muppets' Wizard of Oz (TV, 2005) - **1/2

I think you're being too generous to MWoZ.