Frank Oz: "New Muppets Too Cute"

[MrBloogarFoobly]

Hey, if I was Oz, the last of the original trio of Juhl, Henson, and Oz (Jane retired early), I would feel kind of offended by the executives at Disney passing over a script written by my dead friends and collaborators in favor of some upstarts' fan fiction.

 

[Drtooth]

BUT... Cheapest was also unfinished. I don't know about anyone else, but having something like that passed over seems better than having someone else finish it, making it something it's not. I don't know if they got Frank on board, but I'm sure they'd shove a lot of at the moment pop culture references in it, turning it into something less than what it could have been.

Plus, that is a VERY risky concept for a movie. It could only have been pulled off after a long series of successful films, or if Jim were still around.

Part of me thinks Cheapest would work, but I also think it's too high concept. There's a lot of potential to pull off theater of the absurd, but a LOT can go wrong with the concept. Plus, how would making jokes about running overbudget go for 90 minutes and not get stale? I could see things getting deteriorating slowly, but all and all, it seems like a 90 minute stretched out Monty Python skit that could dangerously go overly long, even with the best of writers.

And if we want to get technical... they did manage to chose at least 3 other inferior concepts over Cheapest to begin with. 6 if you count the telefilms.

 

[Reevz1977]

Drtooth, I think you're right with the the theory on "The Cheapest Muppet Movie Ever Made" and Frank Oz having sour grapes. I'm hoping "The Cheapest" gets made as well at some point. I loved the new "The Muppets" film, but I am more excited to see what new territories the new film will explore.

The one thing the "theme" Muppet movies had going for them was a stronger narrative to get you more invested in the characters as opposed to being a sketch film. The scenes of Michael Caine as Scrooge screaming at Kermit the Frog as Crachit or Tim Curry as Long John Silver saying farewell to Jim Hawkins had so much more emotion to them than the wacky, zaniness of the earlier films. That being said, Muppets Take Manhattan is my favorite for nostalgic reasons.

Loving the Muppet episodes on the Sequel cast. So far I really agree with everything you guys have said! You've also made me chuckle on a few occasions - folks, give it a listen

 

[Mo Frackle]

BUT... Cheapest was also unfinished. I don't know about anyone else, but having something like that passed over seems better than having someone else finish it, making it something it's not. I don't know if they got Frank on board, but I'm sure they'd shove a lot of at the moment pop culture references in it, turning it into something less than what it could have been.

Plus, that is a VERY risky concept for a movie. It could only have been pulled off after a long series of successful films, or if Jim were still around.

Part of me thinks Cheapest would work, but I also think it's too high concept. There's a lot of potential to pull off theater of the absurd, but a LOT can go wrong with the concept. Plus, how would making jokes about running overbudget go for 90 minutes and not get stale? I could see things getting deteriorating slowly, but all and all, it seems like a 90 minute stretched out Monty Python skit that could dangerously go overly long, even with the best of writers.

And if we want to get technical... they did manage to chose at least 3 other inferior concepts over Cheapest to begin with. 6 if you count the telefilms.

That's the reason why I've thought that "Cheapest" might work better as a TV special than a movie. Either that, or have the concept of "Cheapest" as the exposition for the rest of a movie. Though I think the idea of a TV special works better.

 

[Beauregard]

BUT... Cheapest was also unfinished.

Surely that's the whole point

 

[Drtooth]

That's the reason why I've thought that "Cheapest" might work better as a TV special than a movie. Either that, or have the concept of "Cheapest" as the exposition for the rest of a movie. Though I think the idea of a TV special works better.

If they ever did a Muppet sitcom type show, it would work as an episode. Even as a special. Unless they had an amazing script that managed to be funny and deep with the concept, something tells me the jokes would get stale around the (generous) 50-60 minute. And would we see Gonzo making the movie or the even more experimental finished product? That way we'd get something sort of like, but not quite, a 90 minute version of this:

Surely that's the whole point

HEH! No joke intended, but I have a feeling that's how it would end. Just completely petering out like Monty Python and the Holy Grail. Us die hard Muppet fans might like it, but the lack of ending would surely drive kids nuts. I used to hate Butter Battle Book for that reason.

 

[SSLFan]

Lol just a fun thought...it's funny Frank called this film "too cute" yet this is the first Muppet film to receive a PG rating!

 

[Mo Frackle]

Lol just a fun thought...it's funny Frank called this film "too cute" yet this is the first Muppet film to receive a PG rating!

First theatrical one, yes ("It's a Very Merry Muppet Christmas Movie" and "Muppets' Wizard of Oz" were both PG), but if anything, that was probably done to draw more attention.

 

[Sequelcast]

Loving the Muppet episodes on the Sequel cast. So far I really agree with everything you guys have said! You've also made me chuckle on a few occasions - folks, give it a listen

Thanks very much, Reevz1977. That's so kind. It has been fun doing them, although a bit exhausting. Covering a franchise that has more than 3 or 4 movies requires stamina.

 

[Drtooth]

Lol just a fun thought...it's funny Frank called this film "too cute" yet this is the first Muppet film to receive a PG rating!

As this TV Tropes article points out that a PG rating is less than useless.

Ironically enough, in modern times, it's nearly impossible to get a G rating these days on any theatrical release done in live action without some serious, serious negotiation (in a strange inversion of the Animation Age Ghetto, the MPAA is more than happy to rate something as PG for "nothing offensive" just because it's live action). As if assisting the production companies in the propagation of this attitude, almost nothing ever makes it to theaters with a G rating in the first place, but practically none of that is live action. Contrast this with some of the G rated movies of old, which not only included violence but sometimes even blood (for example, Disney's 1954 movie Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea has a pretty high body count and has some unconvincing but definitely present blood during the death of a key character).

So basically, ratings are given to movies based on underhanded dealings by a bunch of people who make the Mafia look honest. It is virtually impossible to get a G rating now, and not that any studio would want it. PG is the new G.