Frank Oz: "New Muppets Too Cute"

[Drtooth]

Oz is acerbic, witty, and has a dark sense of humor. He's not jaded. He's a realist. He has a point, although I don't entirely agree with it. The biggest problem I had with "The Muppets" is how it was blatantly emotionally manipulative. It lacked the subtlety of Henson-era Muppets. But I accepted that, good with the not so good, and enjoyed the movie anyway.

That was a subtlety that was LONG gone with Henson. It had more of that Muppet feeling than the past projects, but that's another thread all together. You cannot replicate something when someone leaves a project or dies. And as I said, no matter how hard you try, your personal style fails you. I'm surprised there weren't more Star Wars references in the film other than the inclusion of the WDW Muppet Mash up figures. They LOVE Star Wars too. HIMYM is FULL of SW references... to the point they're major plot points in certain episodes (Barney and Robin's Stormtrooper argument/ Barney's theory about how his first steady girlfriend hating Ewoks means she's older than she said she was).

I think Frank was at a loss of words, and had a certain feeling he was trying to express that couldn't be explained. I'd wager to say he meant something along the lines of this...

This was a part of his past career that he's since moved on from, but still has a huge personal and emotional impact on him. He's glad that people are keeping Jim's vision going, but feels that it isn't the same because Jim's no longer around. Jim would have done something much different than this film, something more experimental. This is more of a nostalgic fan driven project, while Jim was a forward thinking guy who was more interested in penetrating different markets with different visions and was always out to do new things. And of course the whole "I know the subtleties of the characters because I was them, and my close friends were the others." Not to mention the "can we PLEASE talk about MY projects now?" He can't be too happy if he's pegged as one thing and one thing only. Remember when they were filming the movie with Marlon Brando, and Brando kept calling Frank "Miss Piggy," to push his buttons?

But here's the thing that I wonder... what exactly did he think of VMX, KSY, MwOz, and LTS? I can't say he'd be too fond of those, but no one asked. I think we can agree that he hated working on MFS, as pretty much EVERYONE did. Heck, don't Steve and Dave kinda act like it's their old shame?

 

[MrBloogarFoobly]

That was a subtlety that was LONG gone with Henson. It had more of that Muppet feeling than the past projects, but that's another thread all together. You cannot replicate something when someone leaves a project or dies. And as I said, no matter how hard you try, your personal style fails you. I'm surprised there weren't more Star Wars references in the film other than the inclusion of the WDW Muppet Mash up figures. They LOVE Star Wars too. HIMYM is FULL of SW references... to the point they're major plot points in certain episodes (Barney and Robin's Stormtrooper argument/ Barney's theory about how his first steady girlfriend hating Ewoks means she's older than she said she was).

I agree. I wasn't saying the movie was good or bad because of this. It was just an observation.

I think Frank was at a loss of words, and had a certain feeling he was trying to express that couldn't be explained. I'd wager to say he meant something along the lines of this...

This was a part of his past career that he's since moved on from, but still has a huge personal and emotional impact on him. He's glad that people are keeping Jim's vision going, but feels that it isn't the same because Jim's no longer around. Jim would have done something much different than this film, something more experimental. This is more of a nostalgic fan driven project, while Jim was a forward thinking guy who was more interested in penetrating different markets with different visions and was always out to do new things. And of course the whole "I know the subtleties of the characters because I was them, and my close friends were the others." Not to mention the "can we PLEASE talk about MY projects now?" He can't be too happy if he's pegged as one thing and one thing only. Remember when they were filming the movie with Marlon Brando, and Brando kept calling Frank "Miss Piggy," to push his buttons?

Or, maybe he meant what he said. No need to speculate about it. He's a man of a few words, and the words he chooses, he chooses very carefully.

I do agree that they should have asked him about his current projects. Fact is, Oz isn't with The Muppets. He's got his own life.

 

[ploobis]

http://collider.com/frank-oz-the-muppets-interview/184263/

 

[Duke Remington]

I do agree that they should have asked him about his current projects. Fact is, Oz isn't with The Muppets. He's got his own life.

Exactly!

Also, he's entitled to his opinion, of course, but it does not mean that we have to agree with him if we don't want to.

 

[Drtooth]

I do agree that they should have asked him about his current projects. Fact is, Oz isn't with The Muppets. He's got his own life.

Know what really bugs me? There is a movie I desperately want Frank Oz's opinion on. it's just not a Muppet movie. Now, the question that's been plaguing me for sometime...

What did Frank Oz think when they randomly remade Death at a Funeral only a couple years later to be palatable to an American audience?

 

[MrBloogarFoobly]

http://collider.com/frank-oz-the-muppets-interview/184263/

When will people stop asking Oz about character VOICES? Gahaaa.

 

[D'Snowth]

When will people stop asking Oz about character VOICES? Gahaaa.

Probably never. "Normal" people who aren't necessarily even familiar with what it takes to actually perform a character think only of the "voice", which really isn't even half of the process it takes to perform such characters.

 

[rexcrk]

While I absolutely LOVED The Muppets (best movie since Toy Story 3 and hasn't been topped by anything I've seen since.... but The Hobbit hasn't been released yet ) I have to agree that Frank Oz does make a point.

But I think for The Muppets to work it needed to play it somewhat safe. This was their first theatrical movie since 1999 and they needed this to sort of reboot the franchise. Not really the time to take risks lol.

 

[Drtooth]

But I think for The Muppets to work it needed to play it somewhat safe. This was their first theatrical movie since 1999 and they needed this to sort of reboot the franchise. Not really the time to take risks lol.

The thing is, it wasn't so much intended to be a safe film, so much as Jason and the rest absolutely hated the theme movies that the Muppets had to deal with since Henson's death. Disney didn't really tell them to make a safe movie, Disney actually considered "The Cheapest" movie, but they already had a written script for Jason/Nick's film, so they used that one. I wonder if Frank knew about that and felt just a little perturbed that they didn't use an older script he worked on with Jim. That statement is hypothetical.

Jason/Nick wanted a film that was classic Muppet like in every way that they could make one. That's the "safe" part. And it benefited the film franchise for being a transitional/springboard film. Thankfully it didn't tank, like Superman Returns did, and we'll get another film that's more daring in its vision.

 

[Sequelcast]

Drtooth, I think you're right with the the theory on "The Cheapest Muppet Movie Ever Made" and Frank Oz having sour grapes. I'm hoping "The Cheapest" gets made as well at some point. I loved the new "The Muppets" film, but I am more excited to see what new territories the new film will explore.

The one thing the "theme" Muppet movies had going for them was a stronger narrative to get you more invested in the characters as opposed to being a sketch film. The scenes of Michael Caine as Scrooge screaming at Kermit the Frog as Crachit or Tim Curry as Long John Silver saying farewell to Jim Hawkins had so much more emotion to them than the wacky, zaniness of the earlier films. That being said, Muppets Take Manhattan is my favorite for nostalgic reasons.