CGI replacing puppets and cartoons :(

[mupcollector1]

For Example,
Personally I'm quite angry about the new CGI Yoda that has been around not only the newer Star Wars movies but slowly replacing Empire and Jedi. Not only because I love Frank Oz' puppetry performance but it was Jim and the early Creature Shop and Wendy Froud that helped out George Lucas in the first place to make the Yoda puppet and to give Frank Oz the leading role when Jim couldn't due to his busy schedule.

It kind of reminds me of the South Park episodes when they attacked Lucas and Spellburg in remaking their movies. Great Satire in my opinion.

But yeah, it's like movie puppets and puppets on tv are slowly disappearing. Everyone just wants things to look real, especially cartoons. It's like taking things that puppets and cartoons could do easily that humans can't do and just weaking them to the point where they just do basic human stuff like dancing instead of stretching.

 

[D'Snowth]

It's not that they're trying to make them look more real (which they don't always in some cases), it's because CGI is a lot cheaper than building complicated puppets and animatronics, and a lot easier than hand-drawing thousands and thousands of pictures, so naturally, all these production companies are going to take the cheaper and easier route. It's the same reason why so many locations in movies and such are simply green or blue screened, because it's cheaper and easier to do than building actual sets for the actors to work in, but like CGI, they don't always look entirely more realistic.

 

[mupcollector1]

It's not that they're trying to make them look more real (which they don't always in some cases), it's because CGI is a lot cheaper than building complicated puppets and animatronics, and a lot easier than hand-drawing thousands and thousands of pictures, so naturally, all these production companies are going to take the cheaper and easier route. It's the same reason why so many locations in movies and such are simply green or blue screened, because it's cheaper and easier to do than building actual sets for the actors to work in, but like CGI, they don't always look entirely more realistic.

Yeah I totally agree, especially in this economy but then again, Hollywood is very money and saving hungry. I would love to do some digital puppetry myself. But I always loved the real thing much better because it looks more real and it feels more human than CGI. Like in 2D animation, you can make characters move faster in blurs and doubled effects, just like if someone video taped their arm waving around fast, if you slow the frame rate down, you can see motion blurs, CGI just doesn't do that. Even though it's a good medium, I would just hate it to replace puppetry and hand drawn animation in film and TV just like how electronics get replaced every single year. It's a great craft and nothing beats the handmade stuff, because you can really take your time with it. Sure it wears out in terms of puppets, that's my main concern and rebuilding and budget, but looking at it this way, it just seems to be all worth it.

 

[Drtooth]

For Example,
Personally I'm quite angry about the new CGI Yoda that has been around not only the newer Star Wars movies but slowly replacing Empire and Jedi. Not only because I love Frank Oz' puppetry performance but it was Jim and the early Creature Shop and Wendy Froud that helped out George Lucas in the first place to make the Yoda puppet and to give Frank Oz the leading role when Jim couldn't due to his busy schedule.

This is just a complaint about George Lucas being George Lucas. he's not going to be happy until he's completely destroyed his own movies under the presumption that he wanted them to look like that when he was younger. Now I could get into a whole big thing about it, but he lives in his own stupid little world and does what he wants no matter how angry everyone is at him.

And quite frankly, I find the CGI series Clone Wars brilliant because it's basically how George would wind up making all his movies look... but it totally works as all CGI.

But until recently, there haven't been many successful CGI cartoon shows. Like, Jimmy Neutron and Reboot are the only ones I ever hear anyone talking about. Maybe Beast Wars. They just don't last too long.

But what IS taking over is flash style animation. And while there are GREAT ones that have fluid movements like Martha Speaks, Fosters Home, and The Mr. Men Show, a LOT of them are quite choppy still. I HATE the look of the series Gofrett... other than the sheer ugliness of the show, it's so freaking stiff in its movements. And I realized what I don't like, even about the good ones. They have character expression libraries. You don't have to draw new expressions, which does get rid of a lot of the facial movement.

 

[mupcollector1]

I kind of like flash animation, mostly advanced flash. But as for television, I think it works well in terms of topical humor / satire like South Park, 2DTV and Super News. And of course web toons that started the whole flash crase. But if someone was going to have a TV series, ship it to Korea or use Toon Boom Harmony to get the classic awesome 2D drawn animation back.

I wonder when American toons started to become over sees animation, probably since the 80s I'm guessing. Because TV cartoons from the 60s and 70s were very limited. Imagion having animation like that today, oh boy. lol But it's funny how back in the 40s and 50s and early 60s, animation was made in America and they had a team of animators. Disney, Warner Bros, MGM and they kept coming out with a bunch of cartoons per year.

I'm not sure how many people work at Rough Draft Studios, I think there's an USA one as well as their classic Korea studios but it must he huge sense they basicly animated almost every 90s cartoon show EVER!

 

[Drtooth]

I wonder when American toons started to become over sees animation, probably since the 80s I'm guessing. Because TV cartoons from the 60s and 70s were very limited. Imagion having animation like that today, oh boy. lol But it's funny how back in the 40s and 50s and early 60s, animation was made in America and they had a team of animators. Disney, Warner Bros, MGM and they kept coming out with a bunch of cartoons per year.

Rocky and Bullwinkle was the first cartoon series to be outsourced. In fact, the idea of outsourcing started popping up before that series, and Jay just heard about that idea and how it was cheaper and there were tax incentives... of course, they went to a Mexican firm and immediately regretted it. The funny thing is, they were going to use a Japanese firm, but the building didn't exist yet, and they were going to use Ward Productions' check to fund the building of the studio.

But outsourcing animation had been around since the 60's. Most of those Rakin Bass specials and TV shows? Japanese outsourced. It didn't start to become common practice to outsource to Japan until the late 70's, and then all the way into the 80's and 90's until it became too expensive and they had to go to Korea. And the funny thing is, Japanese anime studio also TOTALLY Outsource to Korea too.

However, 2 current cartoons were Japanese animated. The single episode of Super Friends made as a free pack in with Fisher Price's Super Friends toy line about a year ago, and the new Thundercats, as the original was Japanese animated as well.

 

[mupcollector1]

I heared the early Muppet Babies was animated in Japan as well.
I was never really an Anime fan much. Ironicly every tomboy girl that I ever had a crush on was into Anime some way or another. Though I have to admit, I'm a huge FLCL fan, Haruko always has a special place in my heart.

I've heard lots of good things about Rocky and Bullwinkle, even Matt Groening of Simpsons / Futurama fame said the show was one of this strongest influences. I need to sit down and watch R&B again. The only thing I remember seeing from the show that really cracked me up was the messed up fairy tales segment and I forgot this one this was. If there are any R&B fans who read this, let me know which one this was so I can look it up on youtube.

All I remember was this mean little kid named Billy, he throws a cat out a glass window, then the father comes in and says "BILLY? Why did you throw the cat out the window?" "I wanted to give him a good pain (must have been some really clever pun that I don't remember)" "Billy? Someday you'll HANG!" then fades to him hanging on a nail on a wall holding a picture frame "And he did, in a museum."

I remember cracking up on that.


And even from a tape trade early this year, I rediscovered the 1960s Alvin Show and just how good it really was. I even found this episode that I remember seeing as a kid and still cracks me up. It was an episode were Dave has this neighbor and this lady drove the Chipmunks nuts so they sing to her and she sings and dances loudly out the door "Baby baby baby baby" then the mental hospital doctors put her in a strayjacket into their van and she still sings. lol I loved it. I got to remind myself to make a mp4 of that for my ipod. lol

 

[mupcollector1]

Speaking of this thread, anyone ever hear about what's happening to Chuckie Cheese the rat mascot? He went from skateboarder to 2000s rock star, but this time, in CGI and he shrunk. http://media.miamiherald.com/smedia/2012/07/03/17/25/473-J5Eev.Em.55.jpeg

I hope I have enough money for a mouse trap. lol Couldn't resist. lol

But yeah. I never cared about the robot shows much. I remember as a kid, I brought my Fisher Price Kermit Puppet with me pretending to be a puppeteer filming a Muppet movie. I remember I said through Kermit to some employer "Tell your boss I'm here". lol He smiled and said okay. Then I climed on stage performing Kermit singing and totally blocking the robots and there was like this one kid in the audience who gave me attitude. "HEY KID, GET OFF THE STAGE, I WANNA SEE CHUCKIE!" I got mad and I walked right up to my mother and I said "That kid's got no taste!" lol I was like 6 years old. lol Kind of a bitter / sweet memory.

Last time I was there, they had TV screens next to the robots and they were Muppet style puppets of the Chuckie Cheese characters. They went so far to make rip-offs of Wayne and Wanda. NO JOKE. They had a rip-off of Wayne as prince charming. I was shocked.

 

[Sgt Floyd]

Speaking of this thread, anyone ever hear about what's happening to Chuckie Cheese the rat mascot? He went from skateboarder to 2000s rock star, but this time, in CGI and he shrunk. http://media.miamiherald.com/smedia/2012/07/03/17/25/473-J5Eev.Em.55.jpeg

Oh dear god, kill it with acid on fire and throw it in a pit of spikes...

So does this mean they are doing away with the walk around Chuckie? I can't possibly imagine making a costume out of THAT thing. Although I wouldn't mind owning that guitar. Not a huge fan of Les Pauls, but thats a nice color...what?

 

[Drtooth]

Speaking of this thread, anyone ever hear about what's happening to Chuckie Cheese the rat mascot? He went from skateboarder to 2000s rock star, but this time, in CGI and he shrunk. http://media.miamiherald.com/smedia/2012/07/03/17/25/473-J5Eev.Em.55.jpeg

I'd complain, but they've changed the mascot before, so many times too. They had the lame 1990's Extreme Chuckie in their commercials for years. I didn't go to Chuckies that much, and you can't go in without a kid, I'm not extremely connected to it... but you have to remember, they dumped the straw hat, banjo playing Pizza mouse that Chuckie originally was for a "hip" and "edgy" Chuckie decades ago.

I guess the CGI is just for those terrible commercials.