Speculation: Potential Sequel for "The Muppets"

[CensoredAlso]

But there was a whole movie introducing him, so if Walter's there then Gary has to be there too, and if Gary's there, Mary's there too.

Not necessarily, it's a well known staple of sequels to make some convenient excuse as to why characters played by high profile actors don't reappear.

 

[charlietheowl]

But there was a whole movie introducing him, so if Walter's there then Gary has to be there too, and if Gary's there, Mary's there too.

I don't really think that Walter would have to mean Gary and Mary appear. If they're playing with continuity like they have between movies in the past (like everyone going to the same college in MTM), Walter could just be a part of the cast. I could see him as a sort of assistant to Scooter.

 

[zoebell]

Nope, as I understand it, that was Frank. According to Muppet Wiki, those bits were filmed in the late 90s, but not released until the S2 DVDs came out. And Frank played all his characters. For confirmation, in a Tough Pigs interview with Eric (and Steve and Matt), they were talking about the Muppets.com clips with Animal and his bunny. And Eric mentioned that the bunny came about b/c of Frank going on about bunnies in an Animal interview once. Which would have been The Muppets on the Muppets. And if you listen to Animal, that is DEFINITELY Frank's Animal. Piggy does sound distinctly weird, though. She doesn't really sound like Frank's Piggy. But she doesn't sound like Eric's Piggy either. Maybe Frank had a cold. *shrugs*

Anyway. Pretty sure it was Frank.

oh, i didn't know that. i assumed those were made for the dvd. and yeah, piggy sounded so weird in those clips i saw that i figured it couldn't possibly be frank

 

[MrBloogarFoobly]

I wouldn't blame Frank Oz for being difficult. Working with Steve Whitmire must be weird for him. He built a working relationship with Jim Henson for, what was it, 40 years? Suddenly, his best friend, performing partner, and mentor is dead, and he has to work with this kid. I know Whitmire was part of the mix for a while, but Oz's characters didn't really mix much with Whitmire's. It's different.

As for the Muppets on Muppets interview, Piggy DOES sound strange. It sounds like a weird combination of Frank Oz and Eric Jacobson. I'm not sure who the heck it is, listening to it. At times, it's very much Oz. At other times, it sounds too weird. Animal sounds like Oz.

 

[zoebell]

is it maybe not eric OR frank? it does sound awfully weird. i did a double take when i first heard it

i don't blame him for that either. he and jim were such a team for so long, they knew each other's rhythms, etc. it must be strange to have to force that kind of natural rapport with steve, who was so much younger as well. it's interesting because even though kermit/fozzie kind of faded in the 90s, they still had to basically force the kermit and piggy relationship at times, and it's just different. you can tell, they're not quite the same together

 

[beaker]

And if Bobin and Co. weren't paying any attention to the Muppets during that 20 year span, they ought to bring in somebody who was.

Which is to say, I agree. Give me Rizzo or give me fan riots!

Yeah it's like they merely lived in this world where the Muppets were just a 70's to early 80's thing. No Pepe, no Rizzo. Heck surprised Bobo was in it, as there was no Robin. Yes, it was crazy amazing to have Uncle Deadly as a main character and to see a lot of Behemoth, Luncheon Counter and so many "whoah never thought we'd see those guys again". But it felt like the movie was made by people who haven't been a fan of post Jim Henson era Muppets.

I want to see the writing and magic of the muppets.com and youtube 2008-2010 viral videos. That to me is a direct lineage from the Muppets we all know. I want to see the real magic back. The magic we last saw with Muppets at WDW and Muppetvision 3d and then in some of Muppets Tonight and Muppets.com videos.

Ive come to really like MFS strangely enough, I think in part because of some of the character dynamics.

In Muppets 2011, while we get this amazing opening monologue, and great scenes like Fozzie in Reno Nevada and Kermit/Piggy having a serious grownup talk in Paris...we also get a lot of just long stretches that to me didn't feel truly Muppety.
And Gonzo...what was up with him? He might as well have not even been in it.

 

[RedPiggy]

Without Gonzo, who would've been integral to the ending? I mean, I guess Crazy Harry would do, but considering the "happy part" of the ending depends in large part on Gonzo, it's hard for me to believe "he might as well have not even been in it."

 

[zoebell]

rizzo HAS to be in the next one. i wonder if he's in any of the deleted scenes? i'm surprised they didn't give him at least one little scene, like pepe got. rizzo's a fan favorite too

 

[Drtooth]

One thing I'm worried about with this sequel is the potential for it to bomb. The first one was excellent, but it also relied heavily on nostalgia. Will the public be open to a new Muppet movie? I know I will, and I know everyone here will! But can it make the 160 million+ worldwide that THE MUPPETS has?

The thing about the movie is that it was a brand re-launch. If it stood alone, it wouldn't have been that important a movie, and even the entire comeback plotline would be foolish in retrospect. Even though it did well, a sluggish box office season and 3 other kid's movies (though they didn't do that well, and only one of them was of a measurable quality... I wish Hugo was released at a different time, I really do. I'd have probably seen it if it was) quelled its potential. However, the DVD rentals and Blu-Ray sales are going to pump a LOT of life into this film, causing a LOT of those who waited to say "I wish I saw it in theaters." And that leads to more people rediscovering the Muppets and wanting to see a follow up film of some kind.

Of course, look at the Muppet Wiki domestic Box Office table and you'll see the only follow up movie to do better than the one before it (at least domestically) was MTI after MCC. But I'm sure MCC makes it up in home video.

Yeah it's like they merely lived in this world where the Muppets were just a 70's to early 80's thing. No Pepe, no Rizzo. Heck surprised Bobo was in it, as there was no Robin. Yes, it was crazy amazing to have Uncle Deadly as a main character and to see a lot of Behemoth, Luncheon Counter and so many "whoah never thought we'd see those guys again". But it felt like the movie was made by people who haven't been a fan of post Jim Henson era Muppets.

Like I said before, Rizzo didn't have a sizable role until MTM... and even the character didn't really evolve into anything remotely like we know until after the show ended. I don't see why he wasn't an assistant or exec at the plumbing company that Gonzo owned, but then I'd see him just taking Camella's role in the scene... and quite honestly, Gonzo needed to get back with Camella. We want early Steve Martin Gonzo after all. It's a shame that most of his stuff (and I'm sure of it) was all in the deleted scenes. But at least they focused on Kermit's closeness with Fozzie.

Pepe at least had that one scene, but it's not like Disney's neglecting the character by any means. Sure, he had like that one scene, but he was all over the promotions, had that incredible plush toy, and if the Magic Potato doesn't become the next big internet meme, there's no justice in the world.

But the thing it, there were TOO many dang Muppets in the film! They got in everyone they could, and I have to respect that they got long lost characters in major scenes. I can trade that for a little Rizzo and Pepe for one film. I'm assuming the next time out, they'll have a bigger part for them.

I'm still not crazy about a full on sequel. I think Hangover 2 was made not so much to make money, not so much to entertain fans of the first (it actually didn't), but rather to say "this is what sequels are, people! Rehashes of the first film. Most films don't need them." The thing came off as a huge expose from what I hear. I'm hearing a Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs sequel (the working title is Revenge of the Leftovers)... personal feelings about the movie aside, what the heck else can they do there? I'm sure they're going to wind up throwing the Smurfs back into present day real world for no reason (making it all the more inexplicable) turning it into an even more brainless rehash instead of focusing on a solid plot in their Middle Age world. All Hangover 2. Rehashing the movie with different scenes.

So all I could see for a direct sequel is either a 102 Dalmatians 180 off a 180 where Tex Richman all the sudden wants the land for oil again... or something involving the Moopets trying to get revenge. And even under the best writers, those ideas don't sound so good. I'm sure Stoller and Bobin know that The Muppet Movie wasn't followed by The Muppet Movie 2 where Doc Hopper comes back as a cyborg, bent on personally destroying Kermit and eating his legs... leading them to have to escape via another road trip. So I don't think there's that much to worry... it's just an issue that needs to be addressed.

Personally, I DO want to see Walter come back, and also Miss Poogy. Make her a bartender in a short scene or something.

 

[LouisTheOtter]

Touching on a few themes that have come up here (thanks to everybody for their great discussion, by the way - I've really enjoyed reading these posts):

1. I'm in "I'll believe it when I see it" mode (absolutely no offense meant to theprawncracker) but I'm enthused to hear even preliminary reports that Bobin and Stoller are back on board - and, as mentioned earlier, these reports are popping up before The Muppets even arrives on DVD and Blu-Ray, which should give this already-successful "comeback movie" another huge boost.

2. The movie can work with or without Segel, on-screen (the return of Walter doesn't necessitate the return of Gary or Mary) or off (I'd be heartbroken if he wasn't on board at all but I trust Bobin and Stoller to get this right, although I wouldn't mind seeing Lewis or Oz in the mix - and might a certain Oscar-winning Mr. McKenzie come back to write some more great songs???).

3. While the nostalgia undercurrent drove the plotline and appeal of The Muppets, I think the youth/child audience will come back for a second movie. I was delighted to see so many kids and teenagers in my field of vision embracing both the movie and the characters, and I think a generation conditioned to repeated viewings will embrace The Muppets in DVD/Blu-Ray mode, further strengthening a younger audience base for a follow-up. (Don't forget, Shrek 2 did a lot better than Shrek at the box office, and I suspect this is because the first movie's quality and charm surprised a lot of people and whetted appetites for a sequel.)

4. Like many here, I'd rather not see a direct sequel. The Muppets did what it was supposed to do - reintroduce the characters as well as the balance of heart and laughs that has made so many of their previous productions fun to watch. Turn 'em loose in a fresh adventure that isn't as reliant on past glory (or the lack thereof in recent years). And, with all due respect to MCC and MTI, let them play themselves.

5. I'll echo DrTooth's comment that there may just have been too many Muppets crammed into the most recent film. Don't get me wrong, I loved the great "all hands on deck" TMS vibe in the second half of the movie and it's sometimes fun to play "Who Do You Recognize?" but not if it distracts from the flow of the film or denies other characters their chance to shine. Count me in on the "More Screen Time for Gonzo, Rizzo and Pepe" camp (and I'd throw Rowlf, Robin and the Electric Mayhem in there for good measure - maybe even Johnny and Sal too).

All things being equal - seriously...here we are in early 2012 chattering about a Muppet sequel, let alone a new Muppet movie...how cool is that?!?!