Your Thoughts: "The Muppets" Theatrical Film

[beaker]

I have a fondness for when Sesame Street and Muppets were interchangeable. Youd see Sesame people on the Muppets and vice versa. Heck Mahna's cousin Boppity was on Sesame Street and a picture of Dr Tooth can be seen in one episode.
I LOVED how seamless Sesame Street guys were on the first three movies. It was like no big deal. I loved Uncle Matt's cameo in TMTM. It was one of only a handful of Muppet/Fraggle crossovers. He was suppose to have a cameo in MFS which never happened.

NOW you never ever have a crossover, even tho legally Sesame is allowed to still call their characters Muppets.

I will always consider Fraggle Rock, Sesame Street, Bear in the Big Blue House and any puppet stuff JHC does as "Muppets", legality be darned.

 

[Drtooth]

NOW you never ever have a crossover, even tho legally Sesame is allowed to still call their characters Muppets.

The thing is, they tried to get an Elmo cameo in, but apparently they would have had to pay SW a fortune for it for some reason. I wonder if it was just for that character or for anyone on Sesame... I think Disney would have let them, but there was some price mumbo jumbo they couldn't get past. Still, rather see Elmo than Selina Gomez.

 

[Randall Flagg]

All the "let's make fun of Piggy" stuff pretty much began after Jim died, and The Muppets is the first sign I've seen in a long time that they are getting back to the old relationship. Yes, Kermit could be snarky--he is snarky to Fozzie (often), Scooter (frequently) and Gonzo (a lot)--and he was not above calling her on her over-the-top behavior at times, but Kermit always treated Piggy with some measure of respect--until Jim died.

If you ever get the chance, you should definitely watch the Muppet Show (the original series from the 70s.) You'll see the "let's make fun of Piggy" stuff started WAY before Jim's death. Kermit threw in quite a few bacon and pork jokes, and he could be quite rude to Piggy while flirting with the female guest stars right in front of her. It was one of the running jokes of the series. It wasn't done as much in the movies, and maybe that's what you're thinking of, but it was definitely done in the Muppet Show.

 

[Ruahnna]

hmm. you mean after the muppet show then. because for the entire run of the show i'm not sure there was ever any evidence that he really did like her back in that way (unless you're counting the movies, where yes, he obviously does but they're not necessarily canon)

after the show he did start liking her though. i think by the mid-80's jim was admitting they were a couple if not married. but during TMS it was almost entirely one-sided

I would recommend watching the first season (and all the others! LOL!) again. (Who even NEEDS a reason--right?) Kermit is smitten with Piggy (or at least overwhelmed!) from the first episode when she steps out of the chorus in Temptation, kisses him, and then declares herself "a liberated pig."
But his laid-back style and Piggy's aggressiveness make for some uneven courting at first. In the second episode, Piggy shows possessiveness and jealousy when Kermit introduces Lydia the Tatooed Lady. Part of what is funny here is that Kermit has NO IDEA why Piggy would object to this act. Kermit never feels that his professional stuff--the guest stars, his work with other actresses, etc.--has anything to do with his personal life and his relationship with Piggy. By the 16th episode with Avery Schreiber. Piggy has figure out what pushes Kermit's little green buttons, and it's a little green monster--jealousy! She gets Avery to help her make Avery jealous and Kermit responds by saying that Piggy is HIS GIRL! It is everything that Piggy could hope for--although things go quickly awry. This is by halfway through the first season, so the idea that Kermit didn't like Piggy or wasn't attracted to her before the movies is, well, wrong. Nothing wrong with being incorrect if you're willing to learn from the facts.

 

[Ruahnna]

If you ever get the chance, you should definitely watch the Muppet Show (the original series from the 70s.) You'll see the "let's make fun of Piggy" stuff started WAY before Jim's death. Kermit threw in quite a few bacon and pork jokes, and he could be quite rude to Piggy while flirting with the female guest stars right in front of her. It was one of the running jokes of the series. It wasn't done as much in the movies, and maybe that's what you're thinking of, but it was definitely done in the Muppet Show.

Yes, Kermit did often flirt with the female guest stars. Piggy flirted with most of the male ones. In a non-frog/pig world--who cares? But the fact that Kermit did it specifically to get Piggy's goat, and that Piggy reciprocated ferociously tells you that it wasn't just for grins and giggles. Kermit is trying to tell Piggy that she doesn't control his professional behavior--that he will be the director and the charming host no matter what the state of his dating life. Piggy is saying, "Oh yeah? Right back atcha, mister." None of this would MATTER if it wasn't fun for the audience to watch them annoy each other into jealous fits. In fact, without the foil of the other one being indignant, who the heck cares if Kermit chats up each weeks guest star? And if he's doing it in front of someone whom he knows cares about him, but whom he doesn't like back, well, then--that makes him a bit of a jerk, doesn't it? Just nice, lovable ol' Kermit pouring salt into a would for no reason. Who wouldn't find that adorable?

Kermit did make the occasional bacon joke, and he was quite unkind about the ballet number which was--if I may say so, Piggy, not at all fair to your pulchritude. The "body double" they used for the ballet scenes looked NOTHING like you, Sweetie--no wonder everyone was so rude. But Kermit was rude to Fozzie about his jokes, and to Gonzo about his performance art, and to Scooter for his relentless attempts to control the show through nepotism. But no one questions Kermit's fondness for Fozzie, or appreciation of Gonzo's talent. THe "running joke" of Kermit teasing Piggy was that he was playing her affection for him against her temper. Would she forgive him? Or Hi-yah him? The lady or the tiger, er, frog.

I do not understand why people question Kermit's genuine affection for Piggy went it was so plainly and broadly played.

 

[CensoredAlso]

If you ever get the chance, you should definitely watch the Muppet Show (the original series from the 70s.) You'll see the "let's make fun of Piggy" stuff started WAY before Jim's death. Kermit threw in quite a few bacon and pork jokes, and he could be quite rude to Piggy while flirting with the female guest stars right in front of her. It was one of the running jokes of the series. It wasn't done as much in the movies, and maybe that's what you're thinking of, but it was definitely done in the Muppet Show.

There's a big difference. In the Muppet Show days, you knew Kermit really liked Piggy. Nowadays when he makes jokes, you wonder why he even hangs out with her.

 

[zoebell]

did you though? i thought he was faking it in that avery shreiber episode because scooter had told him it was a trick

i do him remember him being kind of jealous of christopher reeve in a different one. but i really don't remember too many moments that showed kermit actually liking her back on the show. it mostly came later

 

[CensoredAlso]

i do him remember him being kind of jealous of christopher reeve in a different one. but i really don't remember too many moments that showed kermit actually liking her back on the show. it mostly came later

Have you seen the 60 Minutes special that aired during the Muppet Show's run? They asked Kermit about his feelings for Piggy because that was a big part of their characters. Kermit gets all defensive but you know there really are feelings there.

Plus in the Of Muppets and Men book, Richard Hunt was performing Kermit for some child visitors and also played up Kermit's defensiveness about his relationship with Piggy.

 

[dwmckim]

You also can't lump all five years of TMS as Kermit feeling/acting a particular way because there was movement in the relationship through the course of the run (and beyond). How Kermit felt about/treated Piggy was very different in season 1 as it was in season 5.

 

[Ruahnna]

did you though? i thought he was faking it in that avery shreiber episode because scooter had told him it was a trick

i do him remember him being kind of jealous of christopher reeve in a different one. but i really don't remember too many moments that showed kermit actually liking her back on the show. it mostly came later

Luckily, none of us have to depend on our memory about what Kermit and Piggy actually said or did--it's all on film. And while there is certainly room for interpretation about exactly how much and when and what episode, etc., it is not at all ambiguous that there was a romantic relationship going on between them. The debate was--and has always been--the degree. Piggy wants a committed relationship. Back then, that meant marriage--not anything else was considered acceptable to show a genuine commitment. Kermit wanted Piggy (and I'll just leave it at that because that covers the gamut) but was a little commitment-shy. But throughout the run of The Muppet Show and into the movies, all the shows and all the interviews (and boy, did you get some stuff in the interviews! Whew! Why do you think EVERY reporter likes to ask Kermit about Piggy and Piggy about Kermit?) showed that there was a definite romantic relationship going on.

In the Avery Schreiber episode, Kermit DOES figure out it's a trick on Piggy's part, but only after he's revealed his true feelings. We never do know whether or not he kept that after-the-show date, but we know he was adamant about being entitled to it. Only after he's had his outburst does he figure out he's been tricked into showing his hand. Kermit may be reserved in expression but he is strong on feeling.

And yes, Kermit is quite glum in the Christopher Reeve episode because Piggy so obviously prefers the big, muscle-y, bulk of the man who plays super man. He feels very small and green in comparison, which WOULD NOT MATTER so much to him if he did not care what Piggy thought of him. Everybody in the world knows there are attractive men and women out there--we only care if our significant other seems to like someone else's attributes better than our own.