The Bible and Love and Christians

[CensoredAlso]

Oh yeah there are extreme exceptions to this rule, as I said before with Sheen. But the majority of actors are just regular people with flaws, not that nearly controversial, heh.

 

[Drtooth]

@dr tooth: Its so lulzy, now the GOP is positioning themselves as the ANTI war party: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41787051/ns/politics/
I mean yeah, sure Obama escalated the war in Afghanistan...started military action in Libya, Pakistan and now Yemen...but I want to hold out hope they'll start winding down all this mess. Trillions of dollars and countless lives down the drain later...I think even the GOP is realizing we need to focus on America and stop meddling overseas. Especially with our crumbling infrastructure. Heck if the GOP stood for LGBT rights and helping the poor through social programs, I'd be voting Republican. But neither the Dems nor Republicans represent my views, so I usually vote Green Party or truly independent, sometimes Libertarian.

Snicker... you know as well as I do the only reason they're pretending to care about being anti-War to throw him under a bus. If McCain were in charge, we'd ALSO be in Iran as well. I'm starting to think that the only reason the Military generals are making the President keep us in these places is so they can keep their fat paychecks.

Though I think the Libya situation is unfair, because unlike all the other cases, NATO wanted us there. Still... I wish the president had more conviction and didn't listen to 2 failed Presidential candidates. I don't see why the Geneva convention okays dropping bombs on thousands of innocents, but frowns on just executing the leaders of these freaking countries.

It's not lulzy that they're the Anti-War party now. There the whatever Obama does, so the opposite and try to get him impeached so we can get into these wars properly and sell weapons to both sides and get profit from it Party. They RULLY want to get into Iran's sexy sexy oil pants, and there's no doubt we'd be in 8 other Middle Eastern quagmires . The right is oh so happy that we've got a Jimmy Carter situation now. They want him to fail, they always wanted him to fail and they think Boss Limbaugh for that advice.

The truth is they're only "anti-War" because they can use it for the whole spending issue. I don't know whether I'm supposed to laugh or to want to break something. No one questioned money when we went into these places when Bush shoved us in there. No one questioned the massive tax cuts and corporate welfare the war profiteers were getting. But no the same party that gave the rubber stamp to make a legacy happy pretend to take the other side down so they can get another legacy in there. If people ASKED those questions in the first place instead of stuffing themselves with Freedom Fries in their foreign oil guzzling SUV's we wouldn't have been in half the mess we've got now.

I'm not at all happy that we're still in these places, but the best thing we could have hoped for was a glacier slow partial withdrawalm which we are at least getting. McCain wanted us in Iraq till we won. Won what? We killed the guy that George Bush Sr. put into power and was a valuable ally against a company we later sold weapons to all the while when he was killing his own people. And the only thing that happened were that kids who were too oppressed under Sadam to blow up women and children to shag a bunch of imaginary virgins came crawling out of the rocks. I say, we should either have left after that, or billed the lazy, wimpy, pathetic, Homer Simpsons-esque Iraqi puppet government for every year we've been "helping" them.

Over all, the only way to get us out of that crap area is to build a time machine and let Russia have Afganistan and let Iran have the hostages.

 

[beaker]

Well Dr Tooth, notice how every single "bad guy" America turns on are the very ones it supported? Obama/Bush, the UK, Italy and France were BFF with Ghadafy until January of this year. Libya is all about the oil, sorry to say. Why arent we attacking Syria? Syria is doing way worse than Ghadafy, yet noones talking about "NATO intervention". I think you have this illusion that only Republicans or the Bush neocons are war mongers.(no offense) The republicans typically are worse tho...LBJ got the US into the Vietnam mess, but Nixon and Kissinger turned it into an all out southeast asian genocide by the early 1970's.

But back to my point; Reagan helped prop up Saddam and the Taliban, Clinton helped finance the Taliban in Afghanistan and al Qaeda against the Serbian armies during the former Yugoslavian war, and from 2003-early 2011 Ghadafy was a business partner with the West. Oh! I almost forgot Noriega. Bush Sr blew up 3500 Panamanians Christmas of 1989 just to get his former CIA drug running pal Noriega(Iran Contra was also tied to CIA drug smuggling operations) Bin Laden of course came from the Mujahadeen anti Soviet campaign days.

Forget the moral issue though, just think of all the trillions spent on war/security/defense that coulda been used to help America. People used to frown upon isolationism as shelfish, but I feel its the only way as our economy crumbles. I never supported the wars in Afghanistan or Iraq, and if they really wanted to get these terrorists/dictators they might as well just sent in SEALS teams or something. 6600 young US men are dead now...and the kicker? China got most the oil in Iraq and the minerals in Afghanistan.

Anyways, there is a schism in the GOP now...with other GOP contenders accusing Romney of becoming too liberal on several key issues: http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_new...romney-under-gop-fire-on-afghanistan-abortion

I'm thinking, if I was Christian, who would I vote for? As liberal as I am, unlike the LGBT issue I actually can understand the Christian/Christian perspective on abortion. I'm not exactly the biggest fan of abortion myself and don't like seeing it lobbed in with black and gay civil rights. (Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Sikhs, New Agers, Buddhists, etc all believe in the concept of a "soul"...well if you believe that, then one has to wonder when such a "soul" is imprinted into a fetus, as I can understand that belief playing into abortion beliefs)

 

[RedPiggy]

For me, I'm not against war per se. However, I prefer the "turtle" brand of fighting: maximize defense so the majority of folks won't even bother. Constantinople lasted a loooong time that way, LOL. Rather than spread our forces thin, I'd ONLY go to where our presence is absolutely required (and not because of money, but because *gasp* there actually IS a clear and present danger) and work on national DEfense. We're so big it's probably impossible to keep out danger 100% of the time, but at least we can ensure only a really ballsy radical would even bother trying.

 

[Drtooth]

Well Dr Tooth, notice how every single "bad guy" America turns on are the very ones it supported? Obama/Bush, the UK, Italy and France were BFF with Ghadafy until January of this year. Libya is all about the oil, sorry to say. Why arent we attacking Syria? Syria is doing way worse than Ghadafy, yet noones talking about "NATO intervention". I think you have this illusion that only Republicans or the Bush neocons are war mongers.(no offense) The republicans typically are worse tho...LBJ got the US into the Vietnam mess, but Nixon and Kissinger turned it into an all out southeast asian genocide by the early 1970's.

But back to my point; Reagan helped prop up Saddam and the Taliban, Clinton helped finance the Taliban in Afghanistan and al Qaeda against the Serbian armies during the former Yugoslavian war, and from 2003-early 2011 Ghadafy was a business partner with the West. Oh! I almost forgot Noriega. Bush Sr blew up 3500 Panamanians Christmas of 1989 just to get his former CIA drug running pal Noriega(Iran Contra was also tied to CIA drug smuggling operations) Bin Laden of course came from the Mujahadeen anti Soviet campaign days.

It's all bull to me. After WW2 we should have just stayed the heck out of everyone's business. The problem is, everyone claiming to be isolationists on the right are just saying that to garner votes. There's no doubt in my mind that we'd be in even worse when Romney gets elected (he will. He will). And half the Americans who claim to want isolationism are the very same ones that had Footprint of the American Chicken and Let's bomb France next bumper stickers.

No matter who we get, left, right, or inbetween, we'll always be stuck at constant war with that crazy freakbutt part of the world. If it isn't oil, it's buttkissing the Israeli government. And if it isn't that, it's some rich oil baron's lazy good for nothing brat son wanting to kill everyone cause he read a book and got bored with his life. It's a crazy area, and if these people want to revolt and put even worse dictators in charge, let them freaking die and spend money for it. We should have learned our lessons all those other times.

As much as I would have hated President Trump, he did make ONE good point. Why aren't these countries PAYING us to over throw dictators? They're not giving us any oil. Heck, only reason oil's so expensive is because a bunch of rich stock trading twits started telling sci-fi stories about China, and were so happy to see a country go to war that produces SO little oil, you could just squeeze and olive to get the same amount.

Which brings me to my big beef... If people are oh so ticked off about oil prices and foreign warfare, why do they poopoo the idea of alternative energies? The loudmouths that tell them they're sissies if they don't drive huge cars that guzzle gas, yet look manly are PAID by the oil industry. What do the Conservatives that were just elected by angry old people want to cut most from the budget (besides Medicare)? Researching new alternative sources. We've been warned about oil since the 70's, and no one did a darn thing. We keep getting into deals with terrorists then fighting them to get the junk... It's not worth it! I don't see why they still deserve the tax cut AND a bug fat check bonus for NOT doing anything. Come on! There has to be a way to create something they can still bilk the American people on that doesn't get us involved in psychopath parts of the world.

If the GOP candidates were actually sincere about isolationism, which they ARE NOT, I'd listen. They have a strategy. They know how to manipulate the system. If Obama stayed the heck out of Libya, they'd call him out on being in cahoots with Muslins or something. I'd love nothing MORE than an actual factual isolationist to come out, but we're not going to get one. There's too much sweet sweet money to be made for the people who sell weapons to both sides.

 

[CensoredAlso]

I'm thinking, if I was Christian, who would I vote for? As liberal as I am, unlike the LGBT issue I actually can understand the Christian/Christian perspective on abortion. I'm not exactly the biggest fan of abortion myself and don't like seeing it lobbed in with black and gay civil rights. (Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Sikhs, New Agers, Buddhists, etc all believe in the concept of a "soul"...well if you believe that, then one has to wonder when such a "soul" is imprinted into a fetus, as I can understand that belief playing into abortion beliefs)

As a Christian, I would actually love to vote for the Democrats and stand up for the working class. But I just can't in good conscience support them right now while they're so intent on supporting abortion. If the politicans had any sense they'd realize that abortion has become a sad side effect of poverty, not a happy women's right to be celebrated.

Not that I'd vote for the Republicans. When it comes to lessening abortions, they're all talk.

 

[dwayne1115]

As a Christian, I would actually love to vote for the Democrats and stand up for the working class. But I just can't in good conscience support them right now while they're so intent on supporting abortion. If the politicans had any sense they'd realize that abortion has become a sad side effect of poverty, not a happy women's right to be celebrated.

Not that I'd vote for the Republicans. When it comes to lessening abortions, they're all talk.

Abortion is a real tough issue, and I know some people that where so aginst the thought of it that they risked there family, and are now sitting in a prison cell just getting madder and madder with the problem.
I mean in a way im glad he did get caught because if hadn't I would not have met my wife.

 

[frogboy4]

As a Christian, I would actually love to vote for the Democrats and stand up for the working class. But I just can't in good conscience support them right now while they're so intent on supporting abortion. If the politicans had any sense they'd realize that abortion has become a sad side effect of poverty, not a happy women's right to be celebrated.

Not that I'd vote for the Republicans. When it comes to lessening abortions, they're all talk.

I hate the abortion issue because it's a double edged sword where no one really listens to the other side and none of it will ever be solved in our lifetime. I will say this. Religious conservatives fuel the problem by teaching abstinence-only and depriving ignorant young people of the facts about protection and going so far as to falsely stating that it doesn't work thus facilitating high-risk behavior. Let's face it. Teenagers have a way of breaking the rules and will continue to do so no matter how watchful parents are. An after-the-fact "I told you so" just doesn't remedy anything. I'm not for big government telling families what to do, but there must be some sort of mandatory sex-ed in schools to teach the realities and basics. The federal government makes parents keep kids in car seats. I don't see why mandatory dispersal of certain reproductive information isn't just as crucial later in life. And I'm not even getting into the many diseases!

Like most Americans polled in this country, I'm personally pro-life, but cannot and will not take that choice away from any woman ever. Therefore I'm technically pro-choice and never judge my friends who have had any procedure. It's a catch-22 situation in which two parties' rights are in question and I must yield to the one in charge even though it goes against my personal views.

I do think education helps and family planning clinics are key in that, but Planned Parenthood is incorrectly demonized as being a major part of the problem when most of what they really do is try to prevent it in the first place - especially in low income areas. But then of course there is the 2% of their practice that also facilitates abortion once the choice has been made.

I believe we all are accountable for our own actions and must focus on our own lives first.

 

[beaker]

Dr Tooth: I agree about alternative energy! Heck America didnt even gain any energy from these wars. China and the al Qaeda financing Gulf Arab states America does business with got most the oil, minerals, etc from America's wars.

We need a huge push for turbine(wind), solar, new synthetic fuels, European/Chinese styled public trans, etc.

Again, I love Obama's sticking up for gay rights...but he does not deserve that peace prize. Already he's gotten thousands of civilians in Libya, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Yemen and Somalia killed in the last 2 and a half years. I can't and good conscience support that no matter how much of a comic book nerd he claims to be.

But maybe there IS hope? Obama's plan to drawdown troops in Afghanistan
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43471826/ns/world_news-south_and_central_asia/

President Barack Obama will announce the critical next steps in America's decade-long war in Afghanistan on Wednesday, outlining both a plan to start bringing thousands of U.S. troops home next month and a broader withdrawal blueprint aimed at giving Afghans control of their own security in 2014.
But even as Obama finalizes those plans, there are deep divisions in his administration, with military leaders favoring only a gradual reduction in troops but other advisers advocating a significant decrease in the coming months.

Maybe this means no more PBS Sesame Street specials explaining why Elmo's dad has suicidal PTSD syndrome and why Rosita's dad is missing his legs?

 

[CensoredAlso]

Religious conservatives fuel the problem by teaching abstinence-only and depriving ignorant young people of the facts about protection and going so far as to falsely stating that it doesn't work thus facilitating high-risk behavior. Let's face it. Teenagers have a way of breaking the rules and will continue to do so no matter how watchful parents are.

Abstinence isn't the only thing proving ineffective. Kids are taught about safe sex, but then just throw the condoms away. So saying, "We'll educate them" is good in theory, but not always in practice.

I'm personally pro-life, but cannot and will not take that choice away from any woman ever.

And I would want to work so the woman doesn't have to make that choice, ever. Plus as a woman I don't want to think that every choice I make is right just because I made it. We're human beings, we make mistakes. And we can't take abortion back once it's done. As a woman, I want to be equal, not have the power over life and death.