Muppets Lost Promos

[Super Scooter]

Lessons in extreme scrunching:

http://muppet.wikia.com/wiki/File:Ruthkermit.jpg

http://muppet.wikia.com/wiki/File:Florence05.jpg

http://muppet.wikia.com/wiki/File:114-2.jpg

http://muppet.wikia.com/wiki/File:120-11.jpg

http://muppet.wikia.com/wiki/File:123-10.jpg

And that's just the first season.

"Oh, but that's just for comedic effect!"

Yes. And so was Steve's performance in the Lost Slapdown.

"Oh, but Jim's weren't that extreme."

*ahem* Check the pictures again.

"Oh, but Steve's not Jim."

You're right. You are right. He isn't. Dare I say it, Steve is a far better puppeteer in technical performance than Jim was. To be Kermit is a tough task. I don't believe there's a single human being who could recreate Kermit the way Jim did. But Steve does a great job. He's not just a one-note character, though at times it may have seemed to be so. There were a few appearances a while ago where, I'll admit, he seemed to stick to the same old routine. But I haven't seen that in a whiel. He didn't mention Piggy once during the Lost video, so I see no point in discussing that aspect of his supposed "one-dimmensional personality." The frog joke was clever, and appropriate. Of course he's gonna confront the writers about killing off one of his own! In fact, I didn't see any of what you're complaining about in this video (aside from the scrunching face).

Additionally, I hope to never see Kermit make this face at this angle ever again: http://muppet.wikia.com/wiki/File:204-4.jpg

 

[Mupp]

Additionally, I hope to never see Kermit make this face at this angle ever again: http://muppet.wikia.com/wiki/File:204-4.jpg

Whoa..I don't know why, but Kermit kind of reminds me of a Vulture in that picture!

 

[theprawncracker]

I don't understand how Frogster's comments about Steve Whitmire aren't seen as "attacking" a performer if some of the comments about Artie Esposito during the fake-Kermit scare were. It just makes no sense to me, but whatever.

It's embarrassing. And it's embarrassing because, here's this iconic puppet frog that had more character, personality and depth than most fictional characters; someone who could resonate with anyone at any age, and after the performer passes away, he's handed to someone who brings him down several pegs to where it seems only children find him truly appealing.

I whole-heartedly disagree with you here (and in most of your comments, but I'm focusing here). An overwhelming amount of the Muppets', and Kermit's, fan-base comes from adults. Yes, he still appeals to children, but that's hardly his main appeal case anymore since generations of kids haven't grown up with him since the 90's or so, if not before. Now Kermit's main appeal IS to adults. That's why "Bohemian Rhapsody" did so remarkably well (winning FOUR Webby Awards, thank you)--because it appeals to adults who know the characters and the song. It's not like every eight-year-old is rushing to YouTube and typing in "Kermit the Frog" to see what pops up. Kermit appeals to adults just as much, if not more, than he does to kids. Especially Steve's Kermit, might I add, because he has the funny mannerisms and the wit and ability to ad-lib.

Once again, I don't know if you've seen things the Muppets have done recently, Frogster, but they are anything but childish--especially Kermit. Go watch "Bohemian Rhapsody" and find me one "childish" moment. Go watch the commentary on "Bohemian Rhapsody" and I again ask you to find anything "childish." After you're done there, take a listen to the Muppets on the Nerdist Podcast. NOTHING childish there in any way, shape, or form. The Muppets are on the cusp of a major resurgence, and the public is craving Kermit the Frog once again. I understand that you might not feel that way, but most people do and I think you should see that. We who believe in Steve, Kermit, Miss Piggy, Eric, and the Muppets are not the minority here. It has become pretty obvious fairly quickly that no one on this forum is embarrassed by Steve Whitmire and Kermit except you. I do appreciate you voicing your opinion, I just hope you realize that it's not one that is widely accepted.

Steve Whitmire is the only person I would want to see under Kermit the Frog during this exciting Muppet Renaissance!

 

[Super Scooter]

I just had a thought. We complain that Kermit's been referred to as "only appealing to children." Well, technically, that's the Muppets target audience, as Jim Henson himself admitted. Not specifically children, but the child in everyone. That's really who the Muppets speak to. Jim once said that the most sophisticated people he knew, deep down they were all children. I've grown to love this concept, and think it fits perfectly with the Muppets. They're smart, witty, sophisticated, yet they're silly, manic, and innocent. They are the perfect amalgamation of child and adult. They have the full compliment of faults, they're irreverant, but never lose their innocence. Kids are smart. I'd be more worried if Kermit didn't appeal to them. And, ya know, I've never heard any adult say "Oh, I love Barney!" I have heard them say "I love Kermit! Oh, and Grover was the best!" Unlike children's characters who treat their audience like they're morons *coughBarneycough*, the Muppets transcend generations. They appeal as much to children as to the child in all of us. Kermit still succeeds in doing that.

 

[frogboy4]

I don't understand how Frogster's comments about Steve Whitmire aren't seen as "attacking" a performer if some of the comments about Artie Esposito during the fake-Kermit scare were. It just makes no sense to me, but whatever.


I whole-heartedly disagree with you here (and in most of your comments, but I'm focusing here). An overwhelming amount of the Muppets', and Kermit's, fan-base comes from adults. Yes, he still appeals to children, but that's hardly his main appeal case anymore since generations of kids haven't grown up with him since the 90's or so, if not before. Now Kermit's main appeal IS to adults. That's why "Bohemian Rhapsody" did so remarkably well (winning FOUR Webby Awards, thank you)--because it appeals to adults who know the characters and the song. It's not like every eight-year-old is rushing to YouTube and typing in "Kermit the Frog" to see what pops up. Kermit appeals to adults just as much, if not more, than he does to kids. Especially Steve's Kermit, might I add, because he has the funny mannerisms and the wit and ability to ad-lib.

Once again, I don't know if you've seen things the Muppets have done recently, Frogster, but they are anything but childish--especially Kermit. Go watch "Bohemian Rhapsody" and find me one "childish" moment. Go watch the commentary on "Bohemian Rhapsody" and I again ask you to find anything "childish." After you're done there, take a listen to the Muppets on the Nerdist Podcast. NOTHING childish there in any way, shape, or form. The Muppets are on the cusp of a major resurgence, and the public is craving Kermit the Frog once again. I understand that you might not feel that way, but most people do and I think you should see that. We who believe in Steve, Kermit, Miss Piggy, Eric, and the Muppets are not the minority here. It has become pretty obvious fairly quickly that no one on this forum is embarrassed by Steve Whitmire and Kermit except you. I do appreciate you voicing your opinion, I just hope you realize that it's not one that is widely accepted.

Steve Whitmire is the only person I would want to see under Kermit the Frog during this exciting Muppet Renaissance!

Agreed. What excites me the most about Kermit right now is the screenwriters expressing a particular joy about writing for the frog. I think we're getting some fresh material in a classic voice. All this with Steve's direction under the frog. I love it!

 

[Mupp]

I agree. Well said prawny!

 

[antsamthompson9]

I just had a thought. We complain that Kermit's been referred to as "only appealing to children." Well, technically, that's the Muppets target audience, as Jim Henson himself admitted. Not specifically children, but the child in everyone. That's really who the Muppets speak to. Jim once said that the most sophisticated people he knew, deep down they were all children. I've grown to love this concept, and think it fits perfectly with the Muppets. They're smart, witty, sophisticated, yet they're silly, manic, and innocent. They are the perfect amalgamation of child and adult. They have the full compliment of faults, they're irreverant, but never lose their innocence. Kids are smart. I'd be more worried if Kermit didn't appeal to them. And, ya know, I've never heard any adult say "Oh, I love Barney!" I have heard them say "I love Kermit! Oh, and Grover was the best!" Unlike children's characters who treat their audience like they're morons *coughBarneycough*, the Muppets transcend generations. They appeal as much to children as to the child in all of us. Kermit still succeeds in doing that.

I completely agree!

 

[Drtooth]

It's not like every eight-year-old is rushing to YouTube and typing in "Kermit the Frog" to see what pops up. Kermit appeals to adults just as much, if not more, than he does to kids. Especially Steve's Kermit, might I add, because he has the funny mannerisms and the wit and ability to ad-lib.

Here's what bugs me. When Steve tries to make Kermit the everyfrog that wants everybody to be happy, people complain about how he's too juvenile in his appeal... but then they whine about his "porn is fine" comment. Honestly, I don't see him as anything but the gentle type that just loses his patience every so often. And the thing is, for a good percentage of the 80's Jim DID help produce a lot of very juvenile Muppet projects. Like that vidoe tape series with "You're as Funny as Fozzie Bear" and "Wow! You're a cartoonist" (which every fan has to see ONLY for the appearance of Carol's own characters, Picklepuss and Pops). It's a very hard line to walk across.

To me, the character of Kermit always wanted to find middle ground and make everyone happy. Sometimes getting frustrated in the process and blowing up (the one thing I don't think we see enough... but then again, he hasn't been on a regular TV show in years, and you rarely see that in the movies). There's a lot of character subtlety that I think only Jim could have done. A character is a very personal thing, after all. And again, Steve's characters were Rizzo, Bean, Wembley... very frantic characters. I will say Eric took to a lot of Frank's roles flawlessly... Sesame Street character's especially... but there's something about Piggy that's signature to Frank that I think is missing... but his performance as Sam in American Woman was spot on, at least in character. And I find his Fozzie just about perfect, while his Grover is absolutely wonderful.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

That's actually an excellent point. Kermit evolved quite a bit from Hey, Cinderella to The Jim Henson Hour but you know what separates Jim from Steve? Well first and foremost, it's Jim's character and personality. But secondly, Jim actually improved. While Jim wasn't always perfect, there weren't any painful moments by him that I can remember. It's actually tough watching Steve do Kermit for me personally.

I just want to point out that your age in the profile shows 25, which means you were 5 years old when Jim passed away, so the majority of your life has seen Kermit performed by Steve.

I've read these posts throughout this thread and you are consistent in complaining about the performance of Kermit by Steve, the only performer of him the majority of your life. It doesn't make sense (to me).

It is okay to have an opinion, and opinions sometimes involve some criticism; but, as I've pointed out in another thread, there MUST be CONSTRUCTIVE criticism. I am not seeing that in your posts.

If you want to share your opinion, fine; but, you're required to be positive with it and explain, "I don't like ___ and if it were done "this way" then I could appreciate it more." See how that can be a bit more positive?

Jim Henson suggested Steve as the next person to perform Kermit, and with that mantle being passed down to Steve by Jim the choice couldn't have been bad. Jim didn't make bad decisions (that's my opinion). To say Steve is a bad performer of Kermit is saying Jim made bad decisions, and I don't agree with that.

The mood of the thread was fine but you brought negativity to it. Stop it, as a warning. Performers, writers, directors, producers...all these people are members and lurkers of MC and they see all our posts. It is just rude to sit and type anonymously into a fan forum without considering the fact that someone (with actual feelings who works very hard to bring happiness to the world and continue what Jim began) will read.

Be constructive and respectful of the performers--it is NOT an easy job to do even when you've been doing it forever. Just as YOU as a human have progressed and changed over the years, characters do that as well. It's what keeps you, me, Kermit, Fozzie, pets, and friends all interesting.

And in the mode of what I always say about censorship: If you don't like it, turn it off--because you'll never be happy with it. There's plenty of retro-Muppet stuff out there for you. Find those threads and post something good and positive in there that will make you and the rest of your MC family members feel good about what you're posting. Am I censoring you? No, but I am asking that you begin to find a new way to post so that others can appreciate you better for what you are writing.

But, there's enough negativity in the real world without having to suffer through it in the digital fan world.

---------------------------------------

Please nobody respond to this so we can end the negativity of the thread.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

I would like to say that I agree that the Youtube videos are wonderful, they do reach back to a similar style of writing and performance of The Muppet Show and since they've been doing these I feel like we're getting our old pals back again.

The other good thing about doing online videos is that there aren't any needs for sponsors, there isn't a problem of network cancellation, ratings won't matter as much, and the cost is a lot more efficient I think.

We get all this great, great free video stuff online, with a ton of appearances on TV and more. My question to you all is this:

If Diz began to produce full 20-minute episodes similar to The Muppet Show (I would love to see them back in the theater) with guest stars (preferably good ones) and offer them on Muppets.com for a $5/month membership (along with newsletters or other goodies): Would you buy a membership to that?