Double Standards, anyone?

[D'Snowth]

Nobody is attack religion in this thread, we're discussing how some religious people themselves can give it a bad name by a lot of their hypocritical behavior.

 

[frogboy4]

I don't suppose anybody else here finds it ironic that this thread has turned into an opportunity for those that preach tolerance here to once again attack religion.

I’m sorry, but it doesn’t seem as if you’ve actually read or digested the thread before making that statement. Is it possible you just read the first post and then skimmed bits and pieces? Nobody has done what you’ve said in this thread. I’m in agreement with what Snowth just said.

 

[Drtooth]

Nobody is attack religion in this thread, we're discussing how some religious people themselves can give it a bad name by a lot of their hypocritical behavior.

Indeed that's what goes down. No one has said any nasty "Yeah, you're talking about an imaginary guy who floats in a cloud" comments. No one is attacking anyone, just the anger and frustration that so called leaders on both sides use to rile up their own kind. Again, I find the whole atheists vs religious types battle a bunch of hooey started by the leaders of both sides, though... mostly these are the faults of Conservative "Christians" (I always say, NOTE the use of quotation marks) who use it as just another tool to control their people with fear, instead of the words Christ himself said about peace and love and helping others.

I can't say I'm Christian of the year, but I was raised in that religion by a group that actually believes those words and frankly, that disgusts me more than any idiotic psuedo-Athiest ramblings would ever, even if I was a hard devout Christian. Frankly, there's so much to bash on BOTH sides, Religious and non-Religious Zealots. And I've always said all religions and lack thereof can find common ground... it's just not good business sense to do so, and stubbornness on both sides isn't exactly helpful either.

The only time we really had a problem (to my recollection) was when a certain member bombarded the announcement of Kami, the African character who inherited the HIV virus with hateful holier than thou, repressive and downright supremacistic tripe. Especially since no one brought it up in the first place. He was banned, and the whole deal was over and I haven't seen people who used their viewpoints and beliefs to press hateful UNCHRISTIAN like rhetoric... and thankfully, everyone seems to be well behaved on both sides.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

Froggie said nice things about his Foz! Thanks!


Christianity, homosexuality, and more are legal prejudices. Christians could never get away with the same things lots of others who claim a certain religion would be able to. Homosexuals (in most states) can’t suffer the “bliss” of marriage when they have every right to be as miserable as any straight couple! HA!


Where I stand is that I am a Christian, though I don't necessarily live a life that folks consider "Christian." Knowing the Bible inside and out does not make you a good Christian. Churching and tithing every Sunday isn’t a sign of being a good Christian. To be a Christian means to be Christ-like, and that would mean that one would mention the religion, but more than anything it would mean to share peace, love and tolerance.


Common sense can explain tolerance: I don't mean we're to approve hurting others, for example.


However, being judgmental is NOT one of the ways people who call themselves Christians are to behave. I've been judged by so many people that it's unfair, usually by Christians who don't know that I am a HUGE Jesus fan. Then, there are the non-religious who judge me on my belief because they are looping me in with their "belief" about those who claim to share the same belief system as me. It really is a hard life!


I think I perform my duties as a Christian, as well as a person, because I don't think that disliking people will ever bring them closer to God: I try to care about everyone that I can. Not so much by what their standards of life are, but by each individual. Everyone deserves to be respected and loved, and by speaking in anger or hate toward anyone for choosing a lifestyle--religious, atheist, gay--you only push folks further away from, not only a religion or frame of thought, but also yourself.


I have been told by a Buddhist that my actual way of belief is very much like his except I believe in a risen Christ. By my belief of a risen Christ I have to also therefore believe that he died for our 'sins,' and I feel by that term and definition of “sin” as I am the word "normal" for, after all, what is construed as 'normal?' It's certainly not me! I'm crazy as they come! Having died for our sins, then a lot of things are negated in the old testament by which too many so-called Christians find a text to judge and back their need to hate those who do not deserve it. We know that murder is a sin, but is finding someone to love who loves you back, and it’s unconditional, a sin? It can’t be. Whether it’s in what is considered ‘straight’ or ‘gay.’ Jesus represents love, and love is a gift. Non-believers have to also believe that love is a gift from somewhere. It is too wonderful a thing to be something that just happens.


Pat Robertson is one of those who is what I call a fake-Christian: he's garnered a lot of money by brainwashing those masses who have allowed themselves to be misled by HIS teachings and not those teachings that he is SUPPOSED to be teaching. HE is a perfect example of why folks always demean the religion.


There are also those who are “Christians” who are pushing folks further away from Christ than they are bringing to him. For example (and a familiar story): locally, someone I’ve mentored some, the gay teen who tells preacher daddy his story, dad kicks him out and tells him never come back as long as he lives that lifestyle. Now, do we see what’s happened here? The “fisherman among men” has cast away a good catch and what do you think the judgment will be at the end of his life when he stands before the Lord? Hypocritically, the same preacher dad kicked the son out who went to live with his mom in Florida…yep, the parents are divorced. The church I attend welcomes everyone. Half the congregation is homosexuals. Someone told me that is wrong, but I asked, “What’s worse to you: allowing people to be closer to Christ or pushing them further away?u201D


Then, there are those that shove it down the throats of others. Bad mojo! Let people accept what they will and when they want to. I don’t push it down the throats of anyone. I mention what works for me, and if you like this puddin’ and want some, I’ll share; but, if it’s not your dessert, then I won’t make you eat it.


I have been very lucky to have been blessed with very many friends of different religions, magic practices (Wicca or witchcraft), races, political beliefs, and more. I am thankful for everyone of them and I do not judge them. I prefer to accept each one as an individual based on their merit and hope they always accept me for who I am.


I think that is the real definition and challenge as a real Christian.


Anyway, per usual, I probably have contradicted myself somewhere, but the point is that there should be no room in our lives or hearts for any prejudice and regardless of what we believe we are all humans deserving of each other’s love, compassion, understanding and peace. For, if we can’t help each other with these things and accept this to ourselves then what good is our being here on this existence?

Now, I've mentioned pudding and I'm going to go get me some! YUM!

 

[D'Snowth]

Well said Kevster!

 

[MuppetsRule]

I’m sorry, but it doesn’t seem as if you’ve actually read or digested the thread before making that statement. Is it possible you just read the first post and then skimmed bits and pieces? Nobody has done what you’ve said in this thread. I’m in agreement with what Snowth just said.

There’s this belief by many Christians that non-believers (or those who believe, but differently) just haven’t heard things correctly and need to be informed in a better way, but that’s not the case. In fact, I’ve found the opposite to be true. There comes a point when people of faith need to live and let be, yet keep the door open for those who ask.

So let me get this straight. On the one hand you are criticizing the belief by many Christians that non-believers just haven't heard things correctly and need to be informed in a better way and yet on the other hand you are suggesting that maybe I'm just not digesting (or hearing things correctly) of what's being said in this thread. I'm sorry, but I have actually read this thread, several times. Just because you may disagree with my point of view doesn't mean that I haven't read the thread or failed to digest it as if I'm incapable of doing so. People may not agree with Pat Robertson (myself included) or his teachings but how is it acceptable to label his followers as being "brainwashed" or "being controlled"? Could it be possible that they have listened to his teachings and made a decision on their own to believe them without labeling them as mindless? Now you or I or anybody else may not agree with his teachings but who are we to judge those that do? By labeling them mindless or brainwashed is being intolerable. Too often "Christians" or religious people are labeled as blind sheep or being "brainwashed", as if they aren't intelligent enough to make a decision on their own. Now one may not agree with the teachings of Jesus Christ or any other religion but that doesn't give you or I or others in this thread the right to criticize their followers as being mindless. To do so is showing intolerance of their beliefs. And yet this form of intolerance is acceptable. Which brings it back to Super Scooter's original post.

 

[frogboy4]

You've put all sorts of words in my mouth...

So let me get this straight. On the one hand you are criticizing the belief by many Christians that non-believers just haven't heard things correctly and need to be informed in a better way and yet on the other hand you are suggesting that maybe I'm just not digesting (or hearing things correctly) of what's being said in this thread. I'm sorry, but I have actually read this thread, several times. Just because you may disagree with my point of view doesn't mean that I haven't read the thread or failed to digest it as if I'm incapable of doing so. People may not agree with Pat Robertson (myself included) or his teachings but how is it acceptable to label his followers as being "brainwashed" or "being controlled"? Could it be possible that they have listened to his teachings and made a decision on their own to believe them without labeling them as mindless? Now you or I or anybody else may not agree with his teachings but who are we to judge those that do? By labeling them mindless or brainwashed is being intolerable. Too often "Christians" or religious people are labeled as blind sheep or being "brainwashed", as if they aren't intelligent enough to make a decision on their own. Now one may not agree with the teachings of Jesus Christ or any other religion but that doesn't give you or I or others in this thread the right to criticize their followers as being mindless. To do so is showing intolerance of their beliefs. And yet this form of intolerance is acceptable. Which brings it back to Super Scooter's original post.

(Highlighting words for emphasis, not anger)

I would never make a blanket statement and call Christians "brainwashed", "mindless" or any such term. I also made it quite clear, countless times that I was referring to several key religious folk and not the whole.

I continued by stating that non-Christian people, going about their daily lives, don’t need to be told they are sinners when they didn’t ask for a religious opinion on their lives. (Just like we don't need to hear unsolicited opinions from Joe Shmoe on the street that the shirt we're wearing isn't our color or the cut of our jeans makes us look fat.) It’s a common courtesy that some Christians, not all, believe does not apply to witnessing. It’s what turns people off and that can't be what's intended.

But believe what you want. I never used any of the inflammatory language used in your post. Obviously you have a bone to pick with some people out there and so you focused on me.

Dude, I'm gonna just let this go because this last post seems to be in reply to something pre existing rather than something I actually said. Nonsensical posts like this make me want to hang up my hat here for good.

 

[dwmckim]

But haven't you heard the expression "wherever i hang my hat is where i call home"?

But if it does come to that - what kind of hat is it? Can i have it? Anything else you need looked over like say some Muppet collectables or something...

WAIT! What am i saying? We can't not have a Frogboy!

Can't we go back to talking about pudding?

 

[frogboy4]

Froggie said nice things about his Foz! Thanks!

Where I stand is that I am a Christian, though I don't necessarily live a life that folks consider "Christian." Knowing the Bible inside and out does not make you a good Christian. Churching and tithing every Sunday isn’t a sign of being a good Christian. To be a Christian means to be Christ-like, and that would mean that one would mention the religion, but more than anything it would mean to share peace, love and tolerance...

Aw, of course I'm one of you biggest fans. I even Facebook-ed the photo from your trip. That was my favorite day of 2008 and quite an interesting time in itself.

It's funny that even some of my family members believe that I'm an atheist due to my differences of spiritual opinion. Guess I'll finally state this out in type.

I believe in God and see "JC" as his chief representative. I cannot understand any creative person not believing in a creator, but many of my friends are atheists and I still respect that. I also think too many people are concerned with the after-life instead of how they treat one another in this one.

It’s the wide leaps of faith of the possessed snake of Genesis and the virgin birth of the New Testament that I don't believe. Even the most devout Christian must understand what a huge leap that is to make. It’s also too large a leap for me to believe in the legitimacy of ancient Biblical text word-for-word. Still, I can respectfully disagree with others who do. My private school education included intense Biblical studies every semester from preschool to high school and none of it could convince me.

My biggest discrepancy with most mainstream Christian doctrine is that I can't believe in the condemnation of people of other faiths and walks of life. Instead of all being sinners, I think we're all imperfect and ultimately, and most importantly, we're all really just Sneetches. No matter how things appear, we are all far more similar than we are different. That’s why I am still a Muppet fan after all these years. They taught me that the most.

So, I might not share the label or specific beliefs of Christian, but I do agree with much of its principles and I'll never be an atheist. It's just not in me.

 

[frogboy4]

But haven't you heard the expression "wherever i hang my hat is where i call home"?

But if it does come to that - what kind of hat is it? Can i have it? Anything else you need looked over like say some Muppet collectables or something...

WAIT! What am i saying? We can't not have a Frogboy!

Can't we go back to talking about pudding?

It's something I've been considering for a while. I've got a facebook page so it's easy to keep in touch. Still, I probably will stick around. It wasn't my intention to start that discussion.

But the answer to your question is a beany with a propeller...and yes, there will be pudding inside. Soy-based pudding, sorry. I know most people don't like the soy.