Your Thoughts: Kermit and Miss Piggy on America's Got Talent

[Super Scooter]

Yes, there has been much debate about weather to keep Steve on or not for Kermit. Since Disney has bought the Muppets this has always been one of their back projects, replacing the Frog as it's become known behind locked doors.
They have nothing against Steve or others personally, they are just looking into the future of these characters. They see how well they worked with Jim and Frank and they are trying to bring back that magic somehow, and they feel it is the performers that truly breathe the life into the script, not the scriptwriters.
If you are a truly gifted performer you can take a bad script and make it sound good. This performance on AGT was their first little experiment into reforming the Frog.
There will be other experiments with the Pig, but they are homing in on Kermit as of now.

If this is true... than that is some devestating news, and it is a sad, sad day for this Muppet fan.

I don't understand it. I just don't. Steve and Eric have come closer to that Jim and Frank "magic" recently than I ever thought possible. You only have to look at the promotional stuff they did with Kermit and Fozzie last year to see that. It was perfect.

I was afraid of Disney at the beginning, then it seemed they were doing some good for the Muppets. Now... well, now I'm just depressed.

And bad writing is bad writing. A performer's not going to be able to do a whole lot with a lousy script. Some would claim Halle Berry was a good actress... but Catwoman still sucked.

 

[muppetinsider]

If this is true... than that is some devestating news, and it is a sad, sad day for this Muppet fan.

I don't understand it. I just don't. Steve and Eric have come closer to that Jim and Frank "magic" recently than I ever thought possible. You only have to look at the promotional stuff they did with Kermit and Fozzie last year to see that. It was perfect.

I was afraid of Disney at the beginning, then it seemed they were doing some good for the Muppets. Now... well, now I'm just depressed.

And bad writing is bad writing. A performer's not going to be able to do a whole lot with a lousy script. Some would claim Halle Berry was a good actress... but Catwoman still sucked.

Well good or bad that is the mindset at this point. I'd be interested in hearing more of Artie's Kermit, as well as the other performers versions of the Gonzo, Fozzie and Piggy, because what I've seen from those in-house videos they did from a few years ago I can only hope they will go through with their plan. And I know that everyone would agree.

 

[frogboy4]

Yes, there has been much debate about weather to keep Steve on or not for Kermit. Since Disney has bought the Muppets this has always been one of their back projects, replacing the Frog as it's become known behind locked doors.
They have nothing against Steve or others personally, they are just looking into the future of these characters. They see how well they worked with Jim and Frank and they are trying to bring back that magic somehow, and they feel it is the performers that truly breathe the life into the script, not the scriptwriters.
If you are a truly gifted performer you can take a bad script and make it sound good. This performance on AGT was their first little experiment into reforming the Frog.
There will be other experiments with the Pig, but they are homing in on Kermit as of now.

I don't see how Disney would treat the Muppets any differently than their other stock characters. They go to great lengths to secure their voice artists and iconic live action characters. Their work is only replaced as a last resort, but they do have the insurance of possible replacements waiting in the wings. That's what this probably is. I sincerely doubt that anyone in the Mouse House wants to replace Steve, Eric or anyone. I believe they learned that lesson in From the Balcony.

The one problem I have with the appearance is that Muppets shouldn't have understudies unless the performer has quit. I understand subbing and looping later. Still, with this particular performance Kermit's face, gestures and odd movements could tip off just about any level of fan that something wasn't the same. I stand by the statement that the puppeteering was a good effort and I have the highest respect for those who can actually do it. I can't.

 

[Super Scooter]

Well good or bad that is the mindset at this point. I'd be interested in hearing more of Artie's Kermit, as well as the other performers versions of the Gonzo, Fozzie and Piggy, because what I've seen from those in-house videos they did from a few years ago I can only hope they will go through with their plan. And I know that everyone would agree.

I don't know. I agree that perhaps understudies are a good idea for worst-case scenarios. But I suppose I try to be a very loyal person. I grew up watching Jim Henson's Kermit. I also grew up where any new productions were Steve Whitmire's Kermit. I don't think I would agree with new versions of the characters. Especially not Kermit... and especially not Gonzo. I suppose I'm more understanding with other characters either because of less personal attachment or recognizing the circumstances that have required their recasting. But a new Kermit? The possibility, as you suggest, of a new Gonzo? Some might agree, but I don't think everyone would. I know I wouldn't.

 

[TheMonsterAteMe]

How stupid do they think we are?

Okay. The Muppets Performers do not do voices. This is silly to say that. They are actors who perform puppet CHARACTERS. A person can do a half hearted voice that sound a bit like Jim Henson as Kermit the Frog and but on a Kermit the Frog puppet but that does not make it Kermit the Frog. That was not Kermit the Frog I saw last night. I apreciate whoever was doing him, but it was just not Kermit. Look at it this way. Would you watch something like... lets say The Jonas Brothers TV show JONAS if they had actors who were not the Jonas Brothers suddenly come in one season to play them? No, you would be mad. Would you watch I LOVE LUCY if a Lucy impersinator was pretending to play Lucy, and the network was going to let it happen and NOT TELL ANYONE... just kinda assume that no one would notice? NO! You would be angry that they insulted your ability to think. This is what Disney is doing if this is true.

Steve is Kermit now to me. And if they get someone to replace Kermit who just is not Kermit the Frog, then The Muppets are sadly DEAD to me.

 

[RedPiggy]

Okay, I'll bite, considering this has been rather fun to read:

I first thought, watching the youtube last night, that it was stiff. However, considering what it was, I've had time to think it over. Based on the vocals and the "stiffness" ... I think the sub was going for Jim's zen-Kermit. I just think maybe it would be better to find a happy medium between Jim and Steve first. It sounded more like an audition, not an actual official performance, but whatever. Like others have mentioned, other performers, not just Steve ... took awhile to get into a groove. Steve just doesn't do a lot of "zen" roles. All the ones he's famous for act like they've had a lot of Red Bull. Even if he watched Cantus and Rowlf 24/7 for weeks ... I don't know if he can actually be that laid back. One characteristic Kermit, Cantus, and Rowlf share, however, is a mostly laid-back attitude where frustration and anger have to be forced out of them. Even Dr. Teeth, who is more energetic than the other three, is still mostly laid back, just flashier, if that makes sense. I'm not knocking Steve. He's a great guy and I like his Kermit rather well. I wouldn't call him "flamboyant", but it does seem like Kermit is an intern or something, not a seasoned performer. Steve-Kermit acts like he's just beginning his own start-up. Jim-Kermit, on the other hand, was a veteran performer by even Sesame Street, where he was a seasoned if somewhat easily distracted reporter and a warm compassionate friend ... even to little Mr. ADHD himself. It's like Kermit's been de-aged a bit. If Jim-Kermit was maybe 35, Steve-Kermit is like 25. That's not bad, though. It just seems a little out of order. However, I decided to accept it because, let's face it -- Kermit, poor guy, has been under a lot of stress by being part of a franchise that has been traumatized by popularity dips (even pre-death) and death. I can understand that this is how Kermit might react when it all goes downhill to such a personal degree. Piggy, of course, has taken the hit a bit better ... but it's always been her character to hide behind a veneer of glam so that her imperfections don't really announce themselves to others.

Anyway, I give the sub kudos for trying. Even if he becomes the permanent understudy, with practice, I'm sure he'll do fine. A return to a more laid-back approach would work rather well when the Muppets get back on their feet and return to glory. Yes, the online stuff (and I assume the comic book, even though I've yet to get them) are proof that that return is coming. I'm looking, however, for a major media return (tv, film).

Edit: @ TheMonsterAteMe: LOL. I refer you to Bewitched, Roseanne, and the Muppets. How many times did the Muppets switch performers for no apparent reason other than they could? It's not like Jerry Nelson wasn't there to do Floyd. It's not like Richard Hunt wasn't available for Janice. Recasts happen. They DO kinda hope you don't notice or don't care.

 

[Vic Romano]

Couldn't resist.

Alternative Kermit

 

[RedPiggy]

That was funny LOL

 

[theprawncracker]

Couldn't resist.

Alternative Kermit

HAHAHAHAHAHA! ! ! ! Vic... WINS. Awesome, man!

 

[Luke]

Yes, there has been much debate about weather to keep Steve on or not for Kermit. Since Disney has bought the Muppets this has always been one of their back projects, replacing the Frog as it's become known behind locked doors.
They have nothing against Steve or others personally, they are just looking into the future of these characters. They see how well they worked with Jim and Frank and they are trying to bring back that magic somehow, and they feel it is the performers that truly breathe the life into the script, not the scriptwriters.
If you are a truly gifted performer you can take a bad script and make it sound good. This performance on AGT was their first little experiment into reforming the Frog.
There will be other experiments with the Pig, but they are homing in on Kermit as of now.

Yeah i heard that some of the people at the auditions were VERY good - its kinda amazing there are a few almost exact Gonzo, Kermit, Fozzie, Piggy people out there, at least in voice.

I agree that it is the performers who can make a performance or not, but theres only so much you can do with a poor script. I think Eric especially has done a great job, i don't see the problem is performers - in fact some of the times when the current performers have been allowed to adlib recently have been some of the best, its just from how it seems, they haven't been given much of a chance to do that, and some of the scripts when they are working from scripts have
been the usual typical stuff. I would have thought the writing was more a problem, its the usual post Jim 90's Henson stuff - nothing edgy or new - but then they are the Muppets, same premise, same characters ... they can't just be turned into the Simpsons. I wonder sometimes whether really other than a nostalgia kick, theres much more you can do with them. Yes people love them and want to see them, but times have changed, styles have changed - not sure if anyone should or even could do anything with them that would bring back the glory days.

Actually i always thought their best hope was "Americas Next Muppet", it was at the right time, the right style show and format to get the public watching and involved, could have given lots of new performers a chance and the old performers a chance to adlib. Did you happen to see the pilot?

If Disney want to replace Steve or Eric that is their call obviously if they feel its not working, but once they are gone if the replacements don't work out longterm then the characters really are dead. Very risky strategy. I just feel with the Americas Got Talent thing it wasn't the right time to be "experimenting" with the frog and maybe disrespectful to Steve who has been very dedicated. I have seen characters from other brands in the past get taken on by new performers and they never ever went out onto mainstream TV until they had the character down 150% - the AGT performance was far from it. Not blaming the performer, i have no knowledge of whether this was a late decision, tech problems whatever. If they are going to replace people, it really needs to be one character, one performer - it would get really messy with multiple people about and probably lead to a lot of "off" performances like this one.