Why did MFS and EIG bomb so bad?

[D'Snowth]

Welcome back, Snowth.

I've been back...

Why do you think Disney's axing the Muppets?

Are you seriously asking that question? Other than the Wizard of Oz movie and the Christmas special, what has Disney done with the Muppets? Whatever happened to all of these other projects they said they were working on? Sure, they give us The Muppet Show on DVD... always delaying them, though. Why do you guys have so much faith in them anyway? It's the same story with all of these other big corporations - they purchase these media franchises so no one else will, and then hardly do a thing with them, because they never really intend to anyway.

I really feel the Henson family should sue Disney to regain the rights to the Muppets, and NOT sell them to another bigger company again; it was Walt Disney himself who always told people to never sell anything that you create.

 

[frogboy4]

I've been back...

Are you seriously asking that question? Other than the Wizard of Oz movie and the Christmas special, what has Disney done with the Muppets? Whatever happened to all of these other projects they said they were working on? Sure, they give us The Muppet Show on DVD... always delaying them, though. Why do you guys have so much faith in them anyway? It's the same story with all of these other big corporations - they purchase these media franchises so no one else will, and then hardly do a thing with them, because they never really intend to anyway.

I really feel the Henson family should sue Disney to regain the rights to the Muppets, and NOT sell them to another bigger company again; it was Walt Disney himself who always told people to never sell anything that you create.

Woah. Nobody's landed.

You've been back a week from your lengthy sabbatical. That's still under the welcome back category. Just trying to be nice to ya.

I remember the dark days of broken promises. Actually, the Henson Company broke as many or more than Disney did, but for different budgetary reasons. It's different now. The Muppet Show DVDs are tricky to secure the music rights so that's just a waiting game. They have announced season 4 for next year so that's something. I'm impatient about that too. They're just trying to keep the SRP at a reasonable price.

Disney has been been fulfilling its promises since announcing the push. The Muppets are continuing in various figural forms including Vinylmation Muppets and Star Wars Muppets at the Disney parks, the Whatnot Workshop exploded with popularity and will be a staple in the theme parks, they just shot a Christmas special and aired it last year and will be available on DVD this fall, they're shooting a Halloween special now to air this year, Pepe's published a book, Piggy's published a book, the Boom Muppet Show comics are wildly successful and they're going into various other themed Muppet comics, the Muppets have ventured onto YouTube, My Space and Muppets.com is still up and running with new content, not to mention the continuation of Muppet Posers through EFX and the Miss Piggy Tonner dolls, Halloween masks and costumes, T-Shirts along with countless other items, knickknacks and do-dads that I've forgotten to mention. Also, who knows what's in store? There has been buzz. Maybe ComicCon this week will bring something more?

There's no need to be pessimistic unless this stuff doesn't fly and Disney actually does axe its plans like with Kermit's 50th. That was terrible, but they've been giving the Muppets a lot of love these days. Go look at all the Up merchandise out there. There isn't any. Pixar fans have something to be upset about, but not the Muppet fan. At least not now.

 

[Luke]

It's the same story with all of these other big corporations - they purchase these media franchises so no one else will, and then hardly do a thing with them, because they never really intend to anyway.

I've not read the entire thread, but just on this - you have a point, there are a lot of media companies who buy up properties and never intend to do much with them. Largely because its the original programming library that is worth the money itself in distribution, they don't bother spending out to do anything new unless there is a good chance of it being financially successful, and there being a credit crunch they are even more cautious. It's upto them what they do, they are in business not fandom, if it brings in money thats all that matters.

In the case of the Muppets, and especially it being a Disney thing i think it needs a little more time - especially when they have a movie (and possibly TV show in the works) and have only seven months ago broadcast a fairly high budget TV special. Disney do takes ages to do anything major because they are so big themselves and have so much on the table - saying that regularly put money into developing smaller stuff with the Muppets like the comics and Youtube so they have in no way given up. It's true to say some plans (like Studio DC and engaging the kid audience) didn't go as well as they would like. I think maybe if the movie bombed and none of the licensing did well they could just shelve any new projects indefinitely and make their money back on the TV/Film sales but the reaction to the Muppets overall seems to be quite good so i don't think its anywhere near that stage.

I think you have to remember that EMTV didn't do well with the Muppets, and the Hensons before that had quite a few difficult years. When Henson bought back the Muppets it was right at the time of the retro boom so they did ok for a while with that but things went quiet again. I wouldn't say its impossible, but i would say the Muppets have aged a fair bit more than people think making it hard to re-launch them, kids have changed a lot, adults like retro stuff but will only buy into these brands so much and that markets crowded. Disney have the major backing, and its looking hopeful - if it is possible to get them back to any level of public visibility they once had it will be with the Mouse.

I also wouldn't say MFS or EIG bombed, they did fairly well at the time, maybe not to everyones liking. Kermits Swamp Years is the one i would say bombed but even then they managed to distribute it to TV networks worldwide so probably made the money back. It was at a time when Henson were really trying anything in all different areas to find a place for the Muppets and doing Kermit style puppets in pre-school was just another one of those ideas probably done just to keep the company making stuff and getting it out there than expecting it to have any major success.

 

[D'Snowth]

especially when they have a movie (and possibly TV show in the works)

They shelved the show remember? It was supposed to be a spoof of The Office, featuring Kermit trying to get the rest of the gang back together (apparently they went their separate ways).

Other than that, they're going to shelf the movie as well. I can sense it. It's no ESP, but it's a strong prediction.

I almost forgot about EMTV, you're right, but they did seem to do a little better under EMTV's belt... we got Kermit's Swamp Years, It's a Very Merry Muppet Christmas Movie, and Animal Jam to name a few out of it... they were under EMTV at that time weren't they?

 

[minor muppetz]

I recall that neither movie had much television advertising. I was a bit annoyed at the scarcity of seeing TV ads on television. I think I saw more MFS TV commercials than EIG. I saw the EIG trailer in theaters, but not the MFS trailer. It's possible that people didn't see the ads and weren't aware of these movies.

 

[D'Snowth]

I recall that neither movie had much television advertising. I was a bit annoyed at the scarcity of seeing TV ads on television. I think I saw more MFS TV commercials than EIG. I saw the EIG trailer in theaters, but not the MFS trailer. It's possible that people didn't see the ads and weren't aware of these movies.

It seems to me that only certain family movies get a decent amount of TV ads, while others don't; I recall wondering how Clifford's Really Big Movie could be "really big" if I didn't see a single promotion for it, lol (I didn't see the movie, I'm just commenting on the peculiar name). Recently, I've seen quite a few TV ads for Ice Age: Dawn of the Dinosaurs, but not nearly as much for Up, and I hardly saw any ads for Land of the Lost.

I wonder if pre-reviews from movie critics effect the outcome of advertising, because so far, critics have loved the new Ice Age movie, while Up seems to have gotten varied reviews, while people apparently hate Land of the Lost and blame it all on Will Ferrell (and the fact it was a comedy, and the fact that apparently Chaka repeatedly gropes Holly).

 

[BobThePizzaBoy]

I wonder if pre-reviews from movie critics effect the outcome of advertising, because so far, critics have loved the new Ice Age movie, while Up seems to have gotten varied reviews, while people apparently hate Land of the Lost and blame it all on Will Ferrell (and the fact it was a comedy, and the fact that apparently Chaka repeatedly gropes Holly).

What are you talking about? Ice Age is getting really mixed reviews and I haven't heard a single negative thing about Up.

 

[D'Snowth]

What are you talking about? Ice Age is getting really mixed reviews and I haven't heard a single negative thing about Up.

Not from what I've heard - everybody's talking about how Ice Age: Dawn of the Dinosaurs is "the best yet" (hardly in my opinion, while it was certainly a lot better than the second, it's still nowhere near as good as the first), yada-yada-yada, meanwhile some say Up follows in the tradition that each new Pixar movie is better than the last, while some feel a grumpy old man being the "hero" isn't very marketable.

 

[Luke]

They shelved the show remember? It was supposed to be a spoof of The Office, featuring Kermit trying to get the rest of the gang back together (apparently they went their separate ways).

They did shelve that .. well it was a pilot - everyone always do loads of pilots and lots don't get picked up. It's pretty normal - its just we get a lot of info here from the inside people so we tend to know about these things wheras with other brand the fans never usually find out.

I was though talking about another TV show. I have heard things that they would probably try to have a TMS remake set to debut at the same time as any movie that came out. They would need to capitalise on all the movie promotion and whatever Muppety buzz they created.

I'm not sure what to say about the movie. I think it must still be in script stage same as the Fraggle one. I've always had my doubts as to how solid both are given the market conditions but if Disney are building towards a push with the Muppets and sinking all these thousands of dollars into it they are going to need something big like a TV series or movie to justify it all.

I can see that maybe they have slowed down development a bit because Studio DC didn't seem to hit the right note with kids. It's pretty obvious the Disney bigwigs are going to want serious proof they can get the kids into the theaters (even if thats by heavily featuring the Disney tween stars) before they greenlight anything actually going into production on the scale of a movie. I'd expect the Halloween special to be targeted at trying to build on the work they did at Christmas and just slowly try to build them up enough with the family demographs to get enough interest for the movie.

It's a miracle they are even trying again after Oz but generally anything Muppety is always going to make them money in the longterm. The stuff sells internationally and is just re-run over and over for years. Even the not so good stuff.

 

[Luke]

I wonder if pre-reviews from movie critics effect the outcome of advertising, because so far, critics have loved the new Ice Age movie, while Up seems to have gotten varied reviews, while people apparently hate Land of the Lost and blame it all on Will Ferrell (and the fact it was a comedy, and the fact that apparently Chaka repeatedly gropes Holly).

Yeah its very true that if they think a movie is good enough on its own they don't always give it a big advertising budget. Sometimes its the real stinkers that get all the ads - cos they know they need to counter the bad review buzz, poor word of mouth and they just decide to bombard everyone with ads and create so much name recognition that people will just go see the movie anyway regardless of whether people tell them its good or bad. It's not always the case though, the big summer movies will always have huge marketing campaigns because they know it will help them profit from toy, clothing, happy meals, and dvd sales anyway. Something like Transformers or Star Wars is a good example there. Bruno is an example of something they know stinks so they kept it as far away from reviewers as they could and did so much promotion for it directly to the public via ads.