eFX Collectibles to produce Muppet Replicas

[muppetperson]

So basically, I could have had my beloved Pepe and maybe even Rizzo if you just didn't complain!

Ah!

What would the price be, 100 dollars or so (would still be acceptable for me....but maybe not for kids of other enthusiasts)?

That wouldn't even cover a deposit!
You would be looking upwards of $500.Feel like joining the complaining list!

 

[junebug1972]

The price for Quality

What is a good price for a collectible. If it takes a craftsman 30 hours to build one of these even at $10 per hour you still need to count on overhead, profit margin... I would guess that the reason Master Replicas went under is they charged to little for a quality product. We are talking about American hands making these items.

I could be way off base here but I would say that these will/would be priced at $600-900...

If they were made in China and sold at Walmart we could get them for $19.99 but soon enough people will learn that the Walmart way is only going to lead us into a hole we cannot climb out of.

Sorry but I believe you get what you pay for.

 

[ElecMayhem]

Actually, all of Master Replicas products (and all of eFX's as well) are made in China.

I have to believe you're the first person to ever say that MR didn't charge enough.

 

[Bear Man]

ElecMayhem - you'd know this better than I would, and I could be totally off, but with these sorts of companies I don't get the feeling that a huge amount of market research is done. That would make sense, since that's a costly exercise and you've got a fairly small market to start with. But it really does feel to me that decisions often don't reflect what consumers want. EFX, for example, picked Rizzo as a first product not because he'd be the most popular, but because he presented less of a challenge in certain respects. I truly, truly believe that the product was doomed the second Rizzo was selected. I couldn't for the life of me see how they would get enough preorders to go to manufacture, and it seems I was right about that. Fozzie, for reasons I still cannot understand, apparently represented a huge, insurmountable engineering challenge. But people were keen. At the tradeshows there was apparently even some small amount of retailer interest (again, ElecMayhem, you'd know better than me!). Patterns for a "real" version had already been perfected by Terry Angus. But because there were such challenges (shipping, I can see...but what else?) with Fozzie, EFX decided they would go to market with a far less recognisable, less beloved character, rather than spending the extra time in development to solve those problems. And they were doomed to fail.

I can see it from here: both EFX and Sideshow Collectibles had better hope and pray that they never lose their Star Wars license. Because they are incapable of thinking about managing licensed properties in any way other than the Star Wars model. And that model now only works for Star Wars. It used to be that a company would buy a license and then milk it and stretch it out for as long as they could by holding off on releasing key characters, padding out lines with variants and repaints, and people would eat it up because consumers would be loyal to a line, or a completist. The only franchise to still command that sort of blind devotion is Star Wars. Collectors now will now dip in and out, buy perhaps just one item from a line, etc. The companies that are doing well for themselves these days don't try and make their lines last. They come out with the big heavy hitters immediately, and then if a line is successful well, then they might look at a lesser-known character, but they will more likely just release a variant.

The best example I can think of is Hot Toys (high end action figures). They do a lot of movie characters and have been very successful with Batman/The Dark Knight. The first two releases were Batman, and the Joker. Not Batman and Two-Face, or Commisioner Gordon and The Joker, or anything like that - they brought out the two figures everyone would want, straight off the bat. Because they know that people are fickle, and there is so much choice out there around what to spend money on. I don't know how they manage to make it financially viable to make one or two characters, dump the license and move on, but they have. I assume it's because they work under the assumption that they would rather be sure of selling 100 Batman and 100 Joker and ending the line there, than risk selling 100 Batman and only 20 Two-Face which wouldn't justify a second line being released. EFX were taking a huge gamble, trying to stretch out a line that was never going to be able to support more than one or two releases.

Travis, I'm almost certain you've got a strong marketing degree as well as a lot of experience behind you, am I right? But it seems so often companies like EFX grow out of what some fan started in his mom's garage. And that is so awesome that people can take what they love and make it their life's work. But it also means so often people are running a company with no business training.

 

[AnimalAttack]

Sorry for my ignorance, but when does the eFX muppet license end?

 

[MuppetCaper]

I believe that if Sideshow sold plastic replica apples, they would sell. It is not a matter of them having the Star Wars license. They can lose it tomorrow and still be successful. The reason why? they listen to their customers and what they want. As a avid Star Wars collector and buying from Sideshows many of times, I notice that a lot of other licenses do just as good if not better than the Star Wars license. They have such a large variety of other themes that would do just find by themselves. They do read their forums and the fans concerns. I remember when the Stormtrooper came out and how their where so many complains on it not being shiny or the chest plate was too wide etc. So when the Sandtrooper came out, they fixed all that....including the wonky helmet that was not right. That was fixed before they mass produced the Stormtrooper. So it goes to show you that a successful company is one that listens with their ears open and that what brings in the money. As far as eFX is concerned, I believe it is another direction we are dealing with. Yes, it is a small company, and they want the best for their products, but these are not dolls we are talking about. We are talking about high end collectibles. And like I said before, with the economy and Disney's restrictions, it makes everything difficult for these. I wish Bryan the best, I know that he really has passion for what he does and sometimes, not everything works out the way it should, I can only imagine how frustrating it gets on the level of completion. Also, with us constantly on him about it. I think, knows and feels what we do as far as having more Muppet replicas. I am pretty dead on that he wants us to have something more than what we had at MR's by making them EXACT replicas. I am sure he is not giving up, and we should keep our heads up and just hope that it comes down to at least having one replica if not none at all.

 

[Reevz1977]

Travis is back - could this be a positive omen ? ? ? Fingers crossed

 

[ElecMayhem]

ElecMayhem - you'd know this better than I would, and I could be totally off, but with these sorts of companies I don't get the feeling that a huge amount of market research is done. That would make sense, since that's a costly exercise and you've got a fairly small market to start with.

This is absolutely correct, and for the right reason as well. Real market research costs hundreds of thousands of dollars.

But it really does feel to me that decisions often don't reflect what consumers want. EFX, for example, picked Rizzo as a first product not because he'd be the most popular, but because he presented less of a challenge in certain respects. I truly, truly believe that the product was doomed the second Rizzo was selected. I couldn't for the life of me see how they would get enough preorders to go to manufacture, and it seems I was right about that.

I think there is some truth to this statement. Generally, the types of people that start these companies are fans of the various licenses they are working with. Bryan at eFX for instance, is a life-long Star Wars fan; he knows it inside and out. And even if the owner of the company is not, very often there is someone on staff who loves the brand, and who champions it internally. (The flip side to that is that sometimes when you're in that kind of position, you get handed a brand that you know nothing about, and have to "train" yourself...) In this case, Bryan was very keen to continue with the Muppets because -- like all of us -- he believed it was a project worth doing. And, it was meant to be a continuation of the work that MR had done... So, although I was not involved in the decision to lead with Rizzo, I cannot say with 100% certainty that I would have disagreed with it, had I been asked.

Fozzie, for reasons I still cannot understand, apparently represented a huge, insurmountable engineering challenge. But people were keen. At the tradeshows there was apparently even some small amount of retailer interest (again, ElecMayhem, you'd know better than me!). Patterns for a "real" version had already been perfected by Terry Angus. But because there were such challenges (shipping, I can see...but what else?) with Fozzie, EFX decided they would go to market with a far less recognisable, less beloved character, rather than spending the extra time in development to solve those problems. And they were doomed to fail.

Honestly, I don't think it was eFX's choice of Rizzo that's hurting them... it's their inability to get him manufactured. Which, frankly, was the same problem we had with Fozzie. As I mentioned somewhere in my earlier post, the vendors were not up for such labor-intensive projects with such short runs. eFX was aware of MR's problems, and thought they had a solution, but I don't know what became of that. There was some retail interest in Fozzie, but not much. And those same retailers were interested in Rizzo. I understand you're reasoning that Rizzo is less popular than Fozzie... but I would argue that, at the end of the day, that's not what is troubling this line. It's 100% a manufacturing issue.

I can see it from here: both EFX and Sideshow Collectibles had better hope and pray that they never lose their Star Wars license. Because they are incapable of thinking about managing licensed properties in any way other than the Star Wars model.And that model now only works for Star Wars. It used to be that a company would buy a license and then milk it and stretch it out for as long as they could by holding off on releasing key characters, padding out lines with variants and repaints, and people would eat it up because consumers would be loyal to a line, or a completist. The only franchise to still command that sort of blind devotion is Star Wars. Collectors now will now dip in and out, buy perhaps just one item from a line, etc. The companies that are doing well for themselves these days don't try and make their lines last. They come out with the big heavy hitters immediately, and then if a line is successful well, then they might look at a lesser-known character, but they will more likely just release a variant.

Again, I think there is some truth to this... As I said before, losing Star Wars was, in my opinion, one nail in MR's coffin. But Sideshow in particular, I think, can live on without Star Wars. They have a ton of other licenses, and were actually thriving before they GOT the Star Wars license.

Travis, I'm almost certain you've got a strong marketing degree as well as a lot of experience behind you, am I right? But it seems so often companies like EFX grow out of what some fan started in his mom's garage. And that is so awesome that people can take what they love and make it their life's work. But it also means so often people are running a company with no business training.

I appreciate you saying that, but actually my degrees are in Theatre, English and Education... all of which have helped me tremendously in terms of becoming a successful marketer. But really it's been 10 years "in the field" learning through trial and error that have been my real marketing education. And I still have a lot to learn. In truth, I actually WAS (am?) one of those fanboys; and while I did not start a company, I met Ken Lilly here on MuppetCentral, and went to work for Palisades toys. Palisades was actually a pretty healthy mix of fan-boys and business people... But in the end, that didn't save it from eventually going belly-up.

Hope my comments help shed SOME light on the matter.

 

[ElecMayhem]

Travis is back - could this be a positive omen ? ? ? Fingers crossed

Ah, I don't want to be an omen!

I've actually been here all along, lurking and reading... I just didn't feel compelled to comment on any of this for a long time.

I still don't have much in the way of actual intel, either. In fact, I don't have any. Just a little bit of background info. I hope eFX gets this thing off the ground just as much as anyone, for their sake, for the fans' sake, and for the betterment of the Muppet brand.

That's something to cross your fingers about!

 

[MuppetCaper]

Well Travis, it is ALWAYS nice to hear from you anyways as part of the Muppet fans family. I also think you explain it in a very reasonable way since you know a bit about the ins and outs of this subject. I just keep hoping and wishing Bryan and the gang at their best to do what they can for their fans. I am sure he and everyone here would love to see at least one of these come out. And we all know that at least they are trying to do what they can in this kind of market.