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RedPiggy
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Okay, this thread is for our thoughts ("our" meaning not just mine, but everyone else's) about the Muppetverse and how different beings within it originated. No one's expected to come out with a huge fanfic about it. Even just outlines would be cool.
I'll start, naturally, with mine:
The Boss, portrayed by Whoopi in VMX, isn't humanoid, but takes the shape of whatever the dominant species on the planet is when dealing with that particular planet's inhabitants. This is assuming, of course, that The Boss is akin to a deity responsible for the entire universe and not just a guardian of a particular planet or solar system. Now, in my fic-verse, Farscape, Dark Crystal, and Labyrinth are also included in the Muppetverse ... though only Labyrinth (specifically, the manga sequel) makes reference to Muppets (including a "very brief cameo" by Uncle Matt in vol 1).
I don't have Farscape DVDs and I'm not in the mood to delve too deeply into it. I'll focus strictly on Earth history here.
Very early in Earth's history, claims the series Dinosaurs, dinosaurs were "wild". I think this is a good place to start. Somewhere along the way, Earl says that dinosaurs became "civilized". My thought is that this is where the Muppetization of animals first begins. Many millions of years prior to the start of the show, animals were non-sentient or only limited in their sentience. At some point, however, something clicked, perhaps magical (or/and could relate to something the Boss did because she was bored
). Now animals could talk and reason. Dinosaurs started to settle down and do civilized things. We also see, by the start of the show, that mammals are sentient as well, as are birds and amphibians. In real Earth's history, there were several "extinctions", not just the most famous one ca. 65 million years ago. Perhaps, one of these earlier phenomena, in one fell swoop, evolved every animal on the planet, or nearly every animal. On the show, plants do not share this sentience (as far as we are shown, though Ethyl's fable about Earl becoming a tree implies that they ARE sentient, only they cannot express this to others yet).
Well, eventually, all the dinosaurs croak ... if the show's finale's implication is to be believed ... keep in mind ... we never see dead bodies. Classic comic book rule: no bodies, no death.
Now, in "Nuts to War", we are introduced to "cookie creatures" (as Baby calls them). They are very small, mammalian with pronounced eyes and a poochy gut and soft brown fur on the top of their heads and backs. I believe this creature, who comes out of a hole in the wall that was never there before (or after), is the common ancestor of at least Fraggles and Gorgs, if not Doozers as well. I think it is significant that it only appeared when there was all-out war between bipedal and quadripedal dinosaurs.
My own personal tick is that some of the dinosaurs survived. In my fic-verse, without trying to spoil too much, Robbie and others end up in the modern era. What we see as the show is based off of his family, which he recorded dutifully. "A New Leaf" is where I got the inspiration for that, as they "end" the show and reveal that the dinosaurs are acting for the sake of the show, much like the Muppets. I like to think that there are still Dinosaurs running around ... primarily because I'd like to see an updated Muppet Family Christmas, which will never happen in a million years, but I can dream, can't I?
Also, in Dinosaurs history, humans are cavemen at this time, primitive but there. (The Salad Shooter joke notwithstanding.)
Also, I put in my chronology Dark Crystal around this time, but as it takes place clearly on another world, I won't go into it much.
Anyway, fast-forward to "our" era, more or less. Well before the Middle Ages, Sir Hubris had left his job as "King of the Universe" and ended up giving his crown to King Gorgous the Great, the first Gorg King. By now, we have Gorgs and Fraggles differentiated from each other, as the disappearance of the dinosaurs permitted mammalian proliferation. The disappearance of the dinosaurs also allowed birds to diversify. There were very tall birds, and I believe this is how we ultimately get ostriches, emus, and Big Bird (as well as the other human-sized birds in Follow That Bird). He then disappeared again, though apparently the Gorgs liked him so much there is a book of legends about him. In the painting hanging in the Gorg castle, all we see of Sir Hubris is that he's cloaked in a brown robe, is shaped vaguely humanoid (though he don't see any exposed body parts, so his true species is debatable), and, in comparison to King Gorgous, most likely around 10ft tall. There are two thoughts I have: 1) in my fic-verse, I pick Jareth as the former King of the Universe, as he's arrogant (Hubris) and is portrayed as hating his position of king. I don't really go into it, but I personally figured the 10ft-tall part was an elaboration by the Gorgs; 2) for the most part, the Elders in Pangaea were clothed ... in long brown robes that obscured their faces. The downside to suggesting that it is one of the dinosaurian Elders in the painting is that although the size fits, and the turtle-faced dinosaurs would fit more of a humanoid shape under robes, there is no tail in the painting. Again, though, the legend may have conveniently skipped over some details. Also, there is the question of how a dinosaur would be around at that point. Assuming my fic-verse isn't accurate and dinosaurs actually somehow survived anyway, then I guess they could have been there during the Middle Ages. Perhaps 'dragons' are offshoots of dinosaurs who survived. However, there is also the presence of magic, which in "Mokey, Then and Now" proves capable of warping time and space ... so I'm just developing a headache for myself, hehe.
Okay, now we're more into the modern-modern era, LOL. Many different types of animals are "muppetized"/sentient, capable of speaking and reasoning and dressing up in clothes, etc. We also get talking plants at some point. Mokey reads about singing cacti in an old book, if I recall, which could imply that plants started becoming sentient several hundred years prior, at the very least. We also have "monsters" and lots of other types of creatures by now, though monsters, like dragons, may have started very early in the Common Era or in the Classical Period.
Long story short, I believe that something happened millions and millions of years ago, which created what we consider to be "muppets" now, even "creatures" ... basically the clearly anthropomorphic beings.
There's still the question of Muppet humans ... are they just "supposed" to be humans, or are they actually sub-species of Homo sapien? How many people going around actually look like Bert? It's possible to have a human with a pointy head, I guess. And there's Beaker, etc. Still, if the gag about detaching body parts is a real function of Muppet humans (well, any muppet, really, but I've seen it happen with Muppet humans more often), then certainly they are a sub-species. Whether or not they are, uh, genetically compatible with us is a different story I haven't seen evidence for or against, really.
I'd like to see other people's thoughts about this kind of stuff as well. There are various threads for various properties, but this thread could be the catch-all one.
I'll start, naturally, with mine:
The Boss, portrayed by Whoopi in VMX, isn't humanoid, but takes the shape of whatever the dominant species on the planet is when dealing with that particular planet's inhabitants. This is assuming, of course, that The Boss is akin to a deity responsible for the entire universe and not just a guardian of a particular planet or solar system. Now, in my fic-verse, Farscape, Dark Crystal, and Labyrinth are also included in the Muppetverse ... though only Labyrinth (specifically, the manga sequel) makes reference to Muppets (including a "very brief cameo" by Uncle Matt in vol 1).
I don't have Farscape DVDs and I'm not in the mood to delve too deeply into it. I'll focus strictly on Earth history here.
Very early in Earth's history, claims the series Dinosaurs, dinosaurs were "wild". I think this is a good place to start. Somewhere along the way, Earl says that dinosaurs became "civilized". My thought is that this is where the Muppetization of animals first begins. Many millions of years prior to the start of the show, animals were non-sentient or only limited in their sentience. At some point, however, something clicked, perhaps magical (or/and could relate to something the Boss did because she was bored
). Now animals could talk and reason. Dinosaurs started to settle down and do civilized things. We also see, by the start of the show, that mammals are sentient as well, as are birds and amphibians. In real Earth's history, there were several "extinctions", not just the most famous one ca. 65 million years ago. Perhaps, one of these earlier phenomena, in one fell swoop, evolved every animal on the planet, or nearly every animal. On the show, plants do not share this sentience (as far as we are shown, though Ethyl's fable about Earl becoming a tree implies that they ARE sentient, only they cannot express this to others yet).Well, eventually, all the dinosaurs croak ... if the show's finale's implication is to be believed ... keep in mind ... we never see dead bodies. Classic comic book rule: no bodies, no death.
Now, in "Nuts to War", we are introduced to "cookie creatures" (as Baby calls them). They are very small, mammalian with pronounced eyes and a poochy gut and soft brown fur on the top of their heads and backs. I believe this creature, who comes out of a hole in the wall that was never there before (or after), is the common ancestor of at least Fraggles and Gorgs, if not Doozers as well. I think it is significant that it only appeared when there was all-out war between bipedal and quadripedal dinosaurs.
My own personal tick is that some of the dinosaurs survived. In my fic-verse, without trying to spoil too much, Robbie and others end up in the modern era. What we see as the show is based off of his family, which he recorded dutifully. "A New Leaf" is where I got the inspiration for that, as they "end" the show and reveal that the dinosaurs are acting for the sake of the show, much like the Muppets. I like to think that there are still Dinosaurs running around ... primarily because I'd like to see an updated Muppet Family Christmas, which will never happen in a million years, but I can dream, can't I?
Also, in Dinosaurs history, humans are cavemen at this time, primitive but there. (The Salad Shooter joke notwithstanding.)
Also, I put in my chronology Dark Crystal around this time, but as it takes place clearly on another world, I won't go into it much.
Anyway, fast-forward to "our" era, more or less. Well before the Middle Ages, Sir Hubris had left his job as "King of the Universe" and ended up giving his crown to King Gorgous the Great, the first Gorg King. By now, we have Gorgs and Fraggles differentiated from each other, as the disappearance of the dinosaurs permitted mammalian proliferation. The disappearance of the dinosaurs also allowed birds to diversify. There were very tall birds, and I believe this is how we ultimately get ostriches, emus, and Big Bird (as well as the other human-sized birds in Follow That Bird). He then disappeared again, though apparently the Gorgs liked him so much there is a book of legends about him. In the painting hanging in the Gorg castle, all we see of Sir Hubris is that he's cloaked in a brown robe, is shaped vaguely humanoid (though he don't see any exposed body parts, so his true species is debatable), and, in comparison to King Gorgous, most likely around 10ft tall. There are two thoughts I have: 1) in my fic-verse, I pick Jareth as the former King of the Universe, as he's arrogant (Hubris) and is portrayed as hating his position of king. I don't really go into it, but I personally figured the 10ft-tall part was an elaboration by the Gorgs; 2) for the most part, the Elders in Pangaea were clothed ... in long brown robes that obscured their faces. The downside to suggesting that it is one of the dinosaurian Elders in the painting is that although the size fits, and the turtle-faced dinosaurs would fit more of a humanoid shape under robes, there is no tail in the painting. Again, though, the legend may have conveniently skipped over some details. Also, there is the question of how a dinosaur would be around at that point. Assuming my fic-verse isn't accurate and dinosaurs actually somehow survived anyway, then I guess they could have been there during the Middle Ages. Perhaps 'dragons' are offshoots of dinosaurs who survived. However, there is also the presence of magic, which in "Mokey, Then and Now" proves capable of warping time and space ... so I'm just developing a headache for myself, hehe.
Okay, now we're more into the modern-modern era, LOL. Many different types of animals are "muppetized"/sentient, capable of speaking and reasoning and dressing up in clothes, etc. We also get talking plants at some point. Mokey reads about singing cacti in an old book, if I recall, which could imply that plants started becoming sentient several hundred years prior, at the very least. We also have "monsters" and lots of other types of creatures by now, though monsters, like dragons, may have started very early in the Common Era or in the Classical Period.
Long story short, I believe that something happened millions and millions of years ago, which created what we consider to be "muppets" now, even "creatures" ... basically the clearly anthropomorphic beings.
There's still the question of Muppet humans ... are they just "supposed" to be humans, or are they actually sub-species of Homo sapien? How many people going around actually look like Bert? It's possible to have a human with a pointy head, I guess. And there's Beaker, etc. Still, if the gag about detaching body parts is a real function of Muppet humans (well, any muppet, really, but I've seen it happen with Muppet humans more often), then certainly they are a sub-species. Whether or not they are, uh, genetically compatible with us is a different story I haven't seen evidence for or against, really.
I'd like to see other people's thoughts about this kind of stuff as well. There are various threads for various properties, but this thread could be the catch-all one.
