It's a Very Merry Muppet Christmas Appreciation Thread!

[CensoredAlso]

Wow... I'm surprised that some of you guys are shocked about some of the stuff in the Kermit-less world (like Sam)... I mean I always figured the joke was that since Kermit wasn't there, everyone acted out of character.

Oh yeah I understand that's the joke and all. I just think in earlier productions, it would have been done differently. More tragic and dark. Here it was more for shock value, in my opinion.

Oh and my favorite line from VMMCM is from Whoopi as "The Boss" when she said "You're just lucky SpongeBob's not on" (years from now I'll be telling my kids: "Oh SpongeBob was this really great cartoon show back when I was a kid" like how my dad had to explain some of the stuff that went over my head in the older movies )

Same here, lol. I'm fully convinced God enjoys Spongebob, hehe. (And the Muppets of course).

 

[frogboy4]

Oh yeah I understand that's the joke and all. I just think in earlier productions, it would have been done differently. More tragic and dark. Here it was more for shock value, in my opinion.

Same here, lol. I'm fully convinced God enjoys Spongebob, hehe. (And the Muppets of course).

A little yellow square-cut sponge of joy!

I still like this special, but I do understand many of the objections. Much of VMX appears to be tinkered with by too many hands. I remember it had plenty of development time and that could have caused some of the awkward moments. The Muppet Show was filmed under a tight schedule and a lot of pressure. That's what this new special sounds like. Not rushed, but just very focused and determined. It doesn't have the time to get too many fingerprints on it.

 

[CensoredAlso]

I still like this special, but I do understand many of the objections. Much of VMX appears to be tinkered with by too many hands. I remember it had plenty of development time and that could have caused some of the awkward moments. The Muppet Show was filmed under a tight schedule and a lot of pressure. That's what this new special sounds like. Not rushed, but just very focused and determined. It doesn't have the time to get too many fingerprints on it.

That's an interesting point, I can see that. Sometimes pressure results in a better product because you just have to get the most basic but essential things done.

 

[frogboy4]

That's an interesting point, I can see that. Sometimes pressure results in a better product because you just have to get the most basic but essential things done.

I'm a low-pressure artist myself. I don't like the "last minute feeling" and always think it can be avoided. However it appears that in past attempts the Muppets are either just thrown out there and asked to be funny or it goes to this other end of the spectrum where they're over-thinking things and over-testing them. It has made the characters appear less confident, overly self-aware and even irrelevant. Thank frog that appears to be gone.

The clips on the new special feature Fozzie, Gonzo and Kermit chatting in a hallway that just screams GMC to me. It also appears they're withholding the pig a tiny bit and letting the other characters shine. It's about time. I love the pig, but the Muppets are more than just Kermit and Piggy.

VMX featured everybody back in a familiar setting and that's why I like it. I can also see how some fans still feel that the Muppets are kind of playing "characters" rather than just being their usual Muppety selves here too. You gotta love Robin as the Green Fairy.

 

[Zack the Dog]

I like AVMMCM very much and i remember being so excited just as i am now for the new Muppet special. I wish we could see the deleted scenes put back in their spots (if they were all finished) I wonder if anything was done with the Sal the monkey in drag shot (only seen in Pepe backstage bonus feature as well as a Fozzie Bear's joke seen that is talked over in the DVD. Does anyone know what the joke was about pies? I wonder if there were any other deleted clips other then the Snoop Dog one as well i mean.

I hope one day that it will be released in wide screen, but Disney i don't think owns the rights to the movie it's self.

 

[RedPiggy]

Re: All the mentions of OOC moments in the AU

The thing is, I don't see it as out of character. Like I said before, ultra-conservatives like Sam are tended to be seen as actually secretly enjoying the things they say they despise. These types feel they can't be themselves and still be "respectable". All throughout the Muppet Show, Sam is portrayed as being ignorant of the things he proclaims. He can't even say the opening lines of the Declaration of Independence and such. That begs the question: what DOES Sam know? What DOES he enjoy?

Again with Robin: Robin always disliked being treated like a child. Thus, he works in a bar/nightclub since it's an adult environment.

Scooter: I can see the "idle" thing, though I don't know if I agree with it. I get the impression that it might relate to his need to have attention. He was always bugging Kermit about his status, that he should be listened to MERELY because of his uncle. He did this whenever no one would appreciate his words on their own merits. I've been knocked for having this opinion before, and I don't mean to offend, but my personal impression of adult dancers is that they feel they didn't get anywhere in the usual sectors, so they took the wads of cash and became objects. Yes, I understand and sympathize with the whole thing, but it still comes off to me as selling out due to low self-esteem or lack of actual skills.

My point is that I don't think it's out of character at all. Piggy was definitely OOC, Gonzo wasn't, Rizzo wasn't ... if being OOC was the theme of the AU, then everyone would have been. Instead, we just see elements of their usually repressed sides coming out more into the open.

 

[Drtooth]

W
Oh and my favorite line from VMMCM is from Whoopi as "The Boss" when she said "You're just lucky SpongeBob's not on" (years from now I'll be telling my kids: "Oh SpongeBob was this really great cartoon show back when I was a kid" like how my dad had to explain some of the stuff that went over my head in the older movies )

Spongebob will probably still be on years from now! Seems to be the only thing that isn't a Nick Jr show they market anymore. Not that that's a bad thing... I love the Spongey one (thought I think that Squidward is the real star of the show).

I still like this special, but I do understand many of the objections. Much of VMX appears to be tinkered with by too many hands. I remember it had plenty of development time and that could have caused some of the awkward moments. The Muppet Show was filmed under a tight schedule and a lot of pressure. That's what this new special sounds like. Not rushed, but just very focused and determined. It doesn't have the time to get too many fingerprints on it.

The one negative thing I would say about VMX is that they didn't know what audience they wanted to get to, and they chose the nostalgic crowd that likes the sort of Simpsons-y humor that was used in the film. Compaire that to OZ, when they were trying to get both them and tweenagers and a bunch of others... I say if anyone finds VMX uneven due to this, then Oz was a total mess.

But I still really like this one... not quite MFC, but definately a fun Christmas special... a bit dated, though.

 

[Zack the Dog]

On the Kermitless world topic, I know most of characters just make quick cameos and others aren't shown at all (Rowlf, Swedish Chef, Sweetums, Lew Zeland, Bobo, Bean Bunny ect)

Pepe was menioned in a deleted scene (that featured Krit Thacher and Bill Beretta,) that was shown on the dvd, but i would have liked to see something more of that. Sal the Monkey was also dressed in drag in a clip on the dvd.

But many of Muppets were featured around the "Club Dot" theme, Beaker, Bunsen, Robin, Scooter, Statler, Waldorf, Johnny, and Sam so that made it easier for the writers to fit them all in one place where as your get a in a little bit deeper with some of the main Muppets like Gonzo and Miss Piggy, who still seemed like themselves but just didn't get any breaks in life or their dreams never came true. Fozzie too! (his bit was shorter)

I just think the club dot theme of it being there instead of the Muppet theater made for many of the Muppets to be in that scene. I love Kermit's line "Ms Bittermen, not only have you ruined the Muppet Theater! You've ruined the Muppet's!"

 

[Libba Yuki]

To those who have seen the deleted scenes, which ones do you wish were kept in? I wish they did an extended edition for this movie like they did with Oz, there were a couple of deleted scenes I wish they kept:

The Great Santa Clause Switch
The Bus Stops Here (adds to the dreadful feeling we get from seeing Kermit depressed, some may think it was a bit too much...but I liked it regardless, even though it upset me, and think it could have worked in the movie)
The Snowman Gets Slushy (great scene with some kinda dark humor near the end...and I loved it, made me laugh.)

The three easter eggs (all were deleted scenes) were cute too, but not necessary for the movie.

 

[Ruahnna]

Wow. I've been away from here for a bit but this thread was sure to bring me around! I LOVE this movie. When I saw this movie for the first time (which was NOT when it originally aired) I felt like my guys had come home again. Kermit was...kermit-y. He was sweet, affable, hopelessly unworldly and had this wonderful naive faith in the idea that you could make people happy by entertaining them, and that making people happy was a admirable goal in and of itself.

Gonzo was perfect in this. His coming timing (watch his continual reactions and ad-libs while other performers are speaking--he so gosh-darned REAL that it hurts!) and his soulful depth finally get the respect that they had long been due. His song about how miserable Christmas could be was just amazing--it knifed right through all the commercialism of the season with an honesty that was breath-taking. (No--I'm not joking. He actually brought tears to my eyes.) And there was something sublime about Gonzo's skewed view of their Christmas program, including his take.

Fozzie gets to shine in this one, too. There were SO MANY great character moments. Fozzie's good intentions and ineptness were heart-wrenching to watch. Just thinking about Kermit's sad little "Oh Fozzie...no!" makes me want to cry. To try SO HARD and still be the reason that everything goes wrong--what could be worse for a bear who has spent his career teetering on the edge of egotism and insecurity. I think there is much to be said for a bear that would run through lasers--twice--for the sake of his friends and their dream.

Piggy was most felt in her absence here, but I don't mean that as a complaint about her lack of air time. Simply put, this was the beginning of the franchise's realization that the muppets just aren't the muppets without Miss Piggy as the star of the show. (This realization was derailed after NBC sold the muppets, and is only NOW getting back on tract--but that's another post for another--grumpier--thread.) There was a...hmmm...how do I want to say this. There was a general acknowledgement among ALL of the muppets that knew Kermit best that they--and Kermit--just could make it without her. Everyone expects Kermit to "love" the "five golden rings" (bizarre as they are) because Piggy is at the center of it. And the scene where everyone crowds around Kermit, pressuring him to go after Piggy and bring her back home is one of my favorite scenes in muppetdom. There is such...UNDERSTANDING there among them of the way Kermit and Piggy need each other, and how they balance their pride and professionalism and yes, even love, for each other in the face of many trials. And when push comes to hi-yah, the muppet gang knows that Kermit will go and bring home the bacon--right back to where she belongs.

I liked the friends-exchanging-gifts sequence--it was touching.

I LIKED all of the loopy cultural references to "Moulin Rouge" and "A Beautiful Mind" and "Windows." Oh! OH! And DID YOU NOTICE that the doorbell to God's office rings the NBC sound? Talk about advertising!

I liked Scooter with his lampshade on his head trying to impress the chorus girls.

I like Janice and her harp, and Sam and his Propecia.

I, like others, fell in love with Pepe for his rascally sense of justice and his hormonally-induced weaknesses.

Gosh--so much to like about this.

OH! And the kiss scene at the end--everything about that--Piggy's miff, Rowlf's reaction to her after the kiss, Johnny and Sal's catcalls from the audience--oh--it's all too wonderful. Not to mention Piggy's sparkly Kermit-green Christmas frock and styling new gloves. And what a absolute JOY it was to see Kermit--dare I say it--HAPPY to have found himself in the love of his friends and the kisses of his pig.

As far as I'm concerned, it doesn't get much better than this.

So, all you ney-sayers about this one--are you crazy? You won't convince me. This movie is a sure cure for the holiday blues.