If you support Disney owning the Muppets...

[Beauregard]

See, that's the thing. Disney doesn't put time and effort into their current crap like "High School Musical." They just put it out. I think that Disney is taking time to release quality Muppet merchandise, while from "High School Musical" we see cruddy... everything. Time is the key here. Time is what's needed to make quality stuff.

Hear hear! *holds up ticking clock* Time is the great healer, people.

 

[Drtooth]

I always felt that (like the Muppets Take Manhattan wedding) Gonzo's origins were just to be considered a movie experience. Dave Goelz confirmed his support for Gonzo's Muppets From Space origins when he spoke at the San Francisco Muppets 101 lecture over the summer. It kind of bummed me out. I always liked Gonzo because of his ambiguity.

One thing that MFS is good for is that it does have a young following that connected to the Muppets through that film.

Well, before this becomes a "let's tear down MFS" thread (only reasons I'm posting) let's remember. The original script had the aliens NOT being of Gonzo's race, and just fans, forever making his origins ambiguous. But someone at Sony didn;t think 2 year olds would get the irony and complexity of it all, so they threw the best bits of the movie (including Uncle Matt's cameo) out the window. That's why Jerry Juhl (before he passed on) stopped writing for them. I think the movie was good for what it was. Clearly not in the league of TMM, but was it supposed to be?

I also want to point out they never gave the name of his race.

But studios can mess with things, it doesn't matter if it's Sony or Disney (which I think contributed a few bad things that made OZ wosre than it was).

The problem with VMC was that it isn't really a "movie" but a 2 hour special. If you take the word movie out, it works. The best thing about the innuendos was that it probably annoyed the heck out of the prudish public that wanted Snoop Dog's cameo out of the movie. (not every guest of the Muppet show, Sesame Street, or anything was an angel, plus I think that would have been the best part of the movie).

To get a good script now, we need someone to write a script that works with the Muppets. not Joey Mazzarino. he has a better handling of SS characters. maybe Dave Golez, or even Frank Oz could make a new script.

 

[CensoredAlso]

Well, before this becomes a "let's tear down MFS" thread (only reasons I'm posting) let's remember. The original script had the aliens NOT being of Gonzo's race, and just fans, forever making his origins ambiguous. But someone at Sony didn;t think 2 year olds would get the irony and complexity of it all, so they threw the best bits of the movie (including Uncle Matt's cameo) out the window. That's why Jerry Juhl (before he passed on) stopped writing for them.

I hadn't heard that before, but that makes sense. And it's a shame. It could have been a much better movie.

Heh, I wouldn't have cared that much if Snoop Dog was in the movie. But if it were my movie (which of course it wasn't hehe), I wouldn't have included him. It's true that not all celebrities are angels, but the stuff he shamelessly represents should have no place in our society and our Muppets.

 

[MelissaY1]

I always felt that (like the Muppets Take Manhattan wedding) Gonzo's origins were just to be considered a movie experience. Dave Goelz confirmed his support for Gonzo's Muppets From Space origins when he spoke at the San Francisco Muppets 101 lecture over the summer. It kind of bummed me out. I always liked Gonzo because of his ambiguity.

One thing that MFS is good for is that it does have a young following that connected to the Muppets through that film.

Yes, Dave also mentioned that at the Huntinton Muppet event as well: about Gonzo being an alien. I always loved that nobody knew what he was because it made for so many great jokes. The best references to that was on Muppet Babies too I think. He was just a "weirdo"

 

[MelissaY1]

Well, before this becomes a "let's tear down MFS" thread (only reasons I'm posting) let's remember. The original script had the aliens NOT being of Gonzo's race, and just fans, forever making his origins ambiguous. But someone at Sony didn;t think 2 year olds would get the irony and complexity of it all, so they threw the best bits of the movie (including Uncle Matt's cameo) out the window. That's why Jerry Juhl (before he passed on) stopped writing for them. I think the movie was good for what it was. Clearly not in the league of TMM, but was it supposed to be?

I also want to point out they never gave the name of his race.

But studios can mess with things, it doesn't matter if it's Sony or Disney (which I think contributed a few bad things that made OZ wosre than it was).

The problem with VMC was that it isn't really a "movie" but a 2 hour special. If you take the word movie out, it works. The best thing about the innuendos was that it probably annoyed the heck out of the prudish public that wanted Snoop Dog's cameo out of the movie. (not every guest of the Muppet show, Sesame Street, or anything was an angel, plus I think that would have been the best part of the movie).

To get a good script now, we need someone to write a script that works with the Muppets. not Joey Mazzarino. he has a better handling of SS characters. maybe Dave Golez, or even Frank Oz could make a new script.

Well I felt VMC didn't fly very well as a TV special either. It seemed to me it was a big mish mash of pop culture references enlaced with a paper thin storyline that's been done a million times before! And then they try to appeal to the older Muppet/Henson fans by throwing in the Kermit and the kids statue.....awww...

If they wanted to do the real Muppet fans proud, they could've gotten better writers and done a heck of a lot better movie/special. And it didn't feel Christmasy at all either.

 

[Drtooth]

Well I felt VMC didn't fly very well as a TV special either. It seemed to me it was a big mish mash of pop culture references enlaced with a paper thin storyline that's been done a million times before! And then they try to appeal to the older Muppet/Henson fans by throwing in the Kermit and the kids statue.....awww...

That's why they hired ex-Simpsons writers (besides, is there any show on TV that ISN'T pop culture references and paper thin story lines?).

Heh, I wouldn't have cared that much if Snoop Dog was in the movie. But if it were my movie (which of course it wasn' thehe), I wouldn't have included him. It's true that not all celebrities are angels, but the stuff he shamelessly represents should have no place in our society and our Muppets.

That was during his short lived "Let me try to redeem myself" phase. Personally, I think a lot of celebrities the muppets worked with are much worse... Bruce Forsythe for example. His episode was attrocious.

 

[Blinky_Fish]

Actually, to me the lowest point the Muppets ever sank was in Muppets From Space when Kermit lets out,u201D Way to get down with your bad selves!" I almost shouted at the screen,u201D That’s not Kermit!" It was just so cheesy and smacked of trying to hard to be hip - and that was before Disney. That line in MFS offended me more than Rizzo's unfortunate and tasteless "Girls Gone Wild" line in Oz.

Let’s berak this’n down…

A) the Muppets (Jim’s Era) was and is geared for Adult humor innuendo. And, I enjoy this today in it’s current form. That’s what makes the current stuff watchable as an adult. Ask any parent who watches DVD’s over and over again.

B) The Hipness of Kermit has always been in question – I believe it may be over the top sometimes… but, I have to admit, even Jim tried to Hip out Kermit – I give you MTM when he busts into the agent/producers offices. That’s what makes it funny. We all see Kermit from different sides depending on how he was introduced to you - Sesame Street – the reporter version, serious but fun. The Muppet Show Kermit - was a stressed out producer. The Movie version and early Sesame always show his caring side. Even the VMXmas showed that. That is the Kermit that I know and love… I really enjoy the Modern version of Kermit – I like the edgy-ness of him. It’s a direction that shows his next evolution. Keeping him in a nice mid-ground of adult/child relations. What I don’t like is watching him do cheesy commercials like Pizza Hut, or the Ford commercial. I enjoy watching Kermit re-invent himself via Steve or whomever. I really enjoyed the Oddessy shorts where Floyd is Jamming and Kermit dances out his frustrations – Amphi-boogie-frog – That rawked and shows even serious caring people need to shed some stress. ( cont.)

 

[Blinky_Fish]

C) Rizzo,Gonzo and Pepe are the bomb – Don’t you talk smack on my boyz…jk. Pepe, Gonzo and Rizzo are the next Stooges - funny, funny stuff - And since Floyd is not a lead character lately, Pepe fills this spot very well. Rizzo, is always pushing the envelope which is so cool. I agree that MFS was a Pepe, Rizzo & Gonzo movie. And I really enjoyed it, I watch it all of the time and it gets funnier and funnier. Some of it has some lag – But nothing like MWoO.

D) Gonzo’s evolution is also in question here – You all are identifying issues that are described by Dave as his evolution from the Performance Artiste, He’s questioning of himself seemed natural to me. When we did finally find out there were more of - Whatever he is…We didn’t find out what he was. The running gag is that you never find out. Which is a typical Showbiz rake. And I really enjoy when Dave gets to adlib and do whatever he wants – It’s the best! Evidence is the recent Panel discussions.

E) What I don’t understand is what the heck is the Mobile Muppet Labs thing for if there is no project in place for the Muppets @ Disney? How are little kids supposed to know who Bunsen and Beaker are? I mean unless the Parents buy the DVD’s that are not advertised anywhere, where do they get input? The Disney Channel shorts are a start – But ya gotta get moving on this. You are losing another generation of children. More and more kids have access to cable channels – PBS which was a huge influence with Muppet crossovers is losing it’s ground.

 

[MelissaY1]

That's why they hired ex-Simpsons writers (besides, is there any show on TV that ISN'T pop culture references and paper thin story lines?).



That was during his short lived "Let me try to redeem myself" phase. Personally, I think a lot of celebrities the muppets worked with are much worse... Bruce Forsythe for example. His episode was attrocious.

Ah, see, EX Simpsons writers! Must've been a reason for them leaving There's still some decent shows on T.V. I don't watch them because I've pretty much given up on television but I would say stuff like "24" isn't exactly paper thin plots...

 

[Drtooth]

A) the Muppets (Jim’s Era) was and is geared for Adult humor innuendo. And, I enjoy this today in it’s current form. That’s what makes the current stuff watchable as an adult. Ask any parent who watches DVD’s over and over again.

You see, I can be on both sides of this. Other than MOZ, which I didn't like,I liked virtually all the Muppet projects I have seen. Theproblem is there's a right way and a wrong way to make something adult. Shoving in random nipple jokes? no

B) The Hipness of Kermit has always been in question – I believe it may be over the top sometimes… but, I have to admit, even Jim tried to Hip out Kermit – I give you MTM when he busts into the agent/producers offices. That’s what makes it funny. We all see Kermit from different sides depending on how he was introduced to you - Sesame Street – the reporter version, serious but fun. The Muppet Show Kermit - was a stressed out producer. The Movie version and early Sesame always show his caring side. Even the VMXmas showed that. That is the Kermit that I know and love… I really enjoy the Modern version of Kermit – I like the edgy-ness of him. It’s a direction that shows his next evolution. Keeping him in a nice mid-ground of adult/child relations.

I will say that isn't easy to do. A lot of stuff Kermit is adlibbed to do is "Steve" not Kermit. i think he can either go too far (the porn is fine thing was just weird and unexpected) or be just the right fit. Kermit pretending to think he's cool by saying "break it down" or whatever is no different from anyone else who does this that isn't really hip.

Rizzo,Gonzo and Pepe are the bomb – Don’t you talk smack on my boyz…jk. Pepe, Gonzo and Rizzo are the next Stooges - funny, funny stuff -

Can I say one thing? that's what's right with the new muppets. Pepe, Rizzo, and Gonzo. If they could only find a way to make the other characters this good, we'd be onto something. Even MOZ was a little better because of Pepe.

Gonzo’s evolution is also in question here – You all are identifying issues that are described by Dave as his evolution from the Performance Artiste, He’s questioning of himself seemed natural to me.

Sort of like Steve Martin. Actually, I do miss oldschool wacky tire eating Gonzo, though. I don't see what this has to do with Sony saying "kids are not going to get irony. Let's totally underestimate them. Parents will only drag preschool kids to this. Muppets =Sesame Street." and ruining the script.

E) What I don’t understand is what the heck is the Mobile Muppet Labs thing for if there is no project in place for the Muppets @ Disney? How are little kids supposed to know who Bunsen and Beaker are? I mean unless the Parents buy the DVD’s that are not advertised anywhere, where do they get input? The Disney Channel shorts are a start – But ya gotta get moving on this. You are losing another generation of children. More and more kids have access to cable channels – PBS which was a huge influence with Muppet crossovers is losing it’s ground.

Summed up the problem I see. The problem I've been putting forth a million times is they aren't trying hard enough. Supporting Disney or not has nothing to do with it. They have to try harder. read my last post in the thread I started. We don't even have to put in extra effort. Air the unsold pilots as "specials." Reprint old comics in graphic novel form. And at the very least announce the rest of the TMS box sets./ Rerun the movies. It doesn't take a billion dollars to relaunch them slowly if they want to go the slow route.

Seriously. i'd be more supportive of Disney if they at least would do this. At least!