The "You know what?" thread

[minor muppetz]

Seems there's a number of movies, franchises, shows, celebrities, and things that get a lot of hate online - it's common for people on all message boards to dislike them, it's common for them to be picked on by various caustic critics like The Nostalgia Critic, it's common for shows like South Park or Family Guy to poke fun of at them in a seemingly negative way. People and things like Adam Sandler, the Land Before Time sequels, Master of Disguise, current Family Guy, and likely some other things that I can't think of off-hand. I feel like people I know like a lot more live-action adaptations than most people online and such as well.

And yet when I talk to people I know, particularly those who are in the target audience or were when those things came out, the people I talk to in person actually like them. I like many of those things (okay, I've only seen the first few Land Before Time sequels, never really cared to see any past the fifth, but I like the second fine and feel the third and fourth one have things I enjoyed). But the internet and the entertainment industry seem to hate them (could it be that they're really popular to hate?). I can see professional critics (ones that don't just review things for an online comedy series) disliking them, those kinds of people seem to be too mature.

Adam Sandler getting a lot of hate seems a little surprising. Maybe not from this message board, but a lot of criticism is his works being so distasteful, and yet the hate seems to extend to people like The Nostalgia Critic and Film Brain, their fans (judging by message board comments) seem to think so as well, and he sometimes gets this kind of treatment by shows like South Park and Family Guy. These are all things that are arguably as distasteful (often more so) than the works of Adam Sandler.

Of course, a lot of these things have been financially successful (not sure about Master of Disguise), but financial success is often different from critical success (I can't believe that Paul Blart: Mall Cop got a sequel, and that's one that I almost never hear praise from people I know).

 

[Flaky Pudding]

The Nickelodeon show, Big Time Rush may have been somewhat of a spiritual successor to The Monkees. Although this hasn't been stated by anyone at Nickelodeon, I think that it more than likely was. Think about it:The premise of a boy band doing silly stuff, Check! The cartoon-ish sound effects, Check! The frequent musical numbers, Check! Sounds possible to me,

 

[D'Snowth]

I was watching GMC last night, and I think I've figured out why it's my favorite of the first three theatrical Muppet movies when Jim was alive:

- The zany and irreverent Muppet humor was at the top of its game, especially with the running gags (Kermit and Fozzie being "identical" twins, Beau's question about the color of the jewel thieves' hands, breaking the fourth wall)
- The great human cast and cameos
- Nicky Holiday falling madly in love with Miss Piggy because he's so tired of the tall, thin, long-legged model types (and his fascination with flowery socks)
- Joe Raposo's amazing music score and original songs, among some of the most memorable of Muppet music
- Jim's direction
- The cinematic asthetics of the entire movie in terms of shots, camera angles, storytelling and pacing
- The entire Beauregard taxi sequence - hilarious, I used to rewind that part as a kid over and over and over again.

 

[cjd874]

I was watching GMC last night, and I think I've figured out why it's my favorite of the first three theatrical Muppet movies when Jim was alive:

- The zany and irreverent Muppet humor was at the top of its game, especially with the running gags (Kermit and Fozzie being "identical" twins, Beau's question about the color of the jewel thieves' hands, breaking the fourth wall)
- The great human cast and cameos
- Nicky Holiday falling madly in love with Miss Piggy because he's so tired of the tall, thin, long-legged model types (and his fascination with flowery socks)
- Joe Raposo's amazing music score and original songs, among some of the most memorable of Muppet music
- Jim's direction
- The cinematic asthetics of the entire movie in terms of shots, camera angles, storytelling and pacing
- The entire Beauregard taxi sequence - hilarious, I used to rewind that part as a kid over and over and over again.

Likewise, I would say the same of The Muppet Movie for myself.

• There were some really good running gags and zingers (the fork in the road, Hare Krishna, "Myth! Myth!" "Yeth?")...not to mention when Kermit destroys the 4th wall by handing Dr. Teeth a copy of the film script to learn about what happened so far
• Also great human cast and cameos (Charles Durning, Austin Pendleton, Bob Hope, Steve Martin, Cloris Leachman, Madeline Kahn, Mel Brooks, Dom DeLuise, Milton Berle, Edgar Bergen, and of course Big Bird...)
• Paul Williams' and Kenny Ascher wrote a remarkable score too. Rainbow Connection, Can You Picture That, I'm Going Back There Someday, Moving Right Along, and The Magic Store are all outstanding tunes.
• There were some incredible cinematic elements from the very beginning (the overhead shot of Kermit's swamp, Kermit rides a bicycle, Fozzie driving his Studebaker, Animal's Insta-Growth Pill scene).
• To your point, the Great Muppet Caper DID turn all of that up to 10 or 11. GMC has some really amazing sequences but there were some parts that just didn't capture my attention as much, mainly the dance sequences and Piggy's stint in prison, and the English couple scene. But I haven't watched GMC in several years. Maybe if I re-watch it, my opinion will change.
• I love Beauregard's cab scene too! Especially when he crashes through the wall of the Happiness Hotel: "Looks like we're havin' steering wheel soup for dinner tonight!" "AGAIN???"

 

[D'Snowth]

• To your point, the Great Muppet Caper DID turn all of that up to 10 or 11. GMC has some really amazing sequences but there were some parts that just didn't capture my attention as much, mainly the dance sequences and Piggy's stint in prison, and the English couple scene. But I haven't watched GMC in several years. Maybe if I re-watch it, my opinion will change.

I'll agree the dance number didn't do much for me as a kid either (or Piggy's underwater dream sequence, but I can appreciate all of the technical and artistic achievements they accomplished to make that possible), but as an adult, I can appreciate the dry humor of the elderly English couple having little interest in each other lives - but if anything, John Cleese saved the scene just by being John Cleese.

 

[Old Thunder]

Hare Krishna and Myth! Myth! are possibly the greatest running gags in cinematic history.

And I still say that TMM is a pretty much perfect movie. Unpopular opinion, but I don't think the Muppet movies ever neared that again until Muppets From Space.

 

[D'Snowth]

I still don't think MFS is as bad as most people make it out to be, but I suppose I can understand their hatred, considering what we got was not what the original script for the movie was written as, and most people here automatically hate director Tim Hill for his post-Nickelodeon garbage.

 

[fuzzygobo]

The 1979 Muppet Movie was as perfect a movie as you could get (maybe not flawless, but still stands up to repeated viewings more than most).
Still riding momentum from the Muppet Show, plus the unmatched chemistry of all the performers, Jim still a decade away from the heavy-handed Disney deal, the Muppets were definitely on top.

It might be unfair to compare, but with the movies made after his death, each of them having some fine moments, but you always feel Jim's absence.

Same thing could be said about Disney. They made a number of decent films from "Jungle Book" onward (I still love "Robin Hood") but really took a good 20 years to really hit their stride again.
With "Beauty and the Beast" they found their bearings again.

I admire the effort put into every Muppet production since 1990, but it's still hard for me not to be yearning for Jim's presence.

 

[Pig'sSaysAdios]

The Nickelodeon show, Big Time Rush may have been somewhat of a spiritual successor to The Monkees. Although this hasn't been stated by anyone at Nickelodeon, I think that it more than likely was. Think about it:The premise of a boy band doing silly stuff, Check! The cartoon-ish sound effects, Check! The frequent musical numbers, Check! Sounds possible to me,

Oh yeah, it's definitely influenced by The Monkees. I always loved how BTR and Scott Fellows' other Nick show Ned's Declassified felt like cartoons but still really worked as live-action.

I was watching GMC last night, and I think I've figured out why it's my favorite of the first three theatrical Muppet movies when Jim was alive:

- The zany and irreverent Muppet humor was at the top of its game, especially with the running gags (Kermit and Fozzie being "identical" twins, Beau's question about the color of the jewel thieves' hands, breaking the fourth wall)
- The great human cast and cameos
- Nicky Holiday falling madly in love with Miss Piggy because he's so tired of the tall, thin, long-legged model types (and his fascination with flowery socks)
- Joe Raposo's amazing music score and original songs, among some of the most memorable of Muppet music
- Jim's direction
- The cinematic asthetics of the entire movie in terms of shots, camera angles, storytelling and pacing
- The entire Beauregard taxi sequence - hilarious, I used to rewind that part as a kid over and over and over again.

That movie will always hold a special place in my heart because it was the first Muppet movie I ever watched.

The 1979 Muppet Movie was as perfect a movie as you could get (maybe not flawless, but still stands up to repeated viewings more than most).
Still riding momentum from the Muppet Show, plus the unmatched chemistry of all the performers, Jim still a decade away from the heavy-handed Disney deal, the Muppets were definitely on top.

It might be unfair to compare, but with the movies made after his death, each of them having some fine moments, but you always feel Jim's absence.

Same thing could be said about Disney. They made a number of decent films from "Jungle Book" onward (I still love "Robin Hood") but really took a good 20 years to really hit their stride again.
With "Beauty and the Beast" they found their bearings again.

I admire the effort put into every Muppet production since 1990, but it's still hard for me not to be yearning for Jim's presence.

I see what you mean. In a way I think Jim's death was a turning point for the Muppeteers. When Jim was alive it's like they were doing it because it was fun, and all of their creativity just flowed. But when Jim died (and Richard) it's like they had to grow up more, and they were doing it more out of a sense of obligation. Not to mention, by the 90s everything was already slowly being bought by the same few companies, and all aspects of the business became more corporate.

 

[fuzzygobo]

Same thing could be said about Jim's death and Sesame Street. I really thought that after hearing about his death, Sesame was finished.
After 20 solid years, how much longer could the show go on? It outlasted anything else PBS ever aired (Mr. Rogers aired new episodes sporadically, he didn't have the heavy production schedule Sesame did).

They were able to survive the deaths of Mr. Hooper, David, and Joe Raposo, but Jim's death was such a serious blow. Even Frank admitted, he still did Grover and Cookie for a number of years, but after a while it seemed more of an obligation than a true commitment.

By virtue of getting older, by the time of Jim's death I was 22, graduating from college, and sitting at home to watch Sesame Street is no longer a top priority.
Working, paying rent, playing in bands, dating, all that stuff happens as you grow up, and instead of watching Sesame every day, you have other things on your plate.
This is probably scaring the crap out of some of you, all this ADULT stuff, but someday you'll all have to face that moment too.

You don't have to leave your childhood behind completely, but at work, the boss probably won't like it if you show up with your sippy cup and binkie.