Separating the art from the artist: Is it always possible?

[Drtooth]

We also have to add into one other factor.

Is the artist's art reflective of what got them in trouble in the first place?

Look at the controversy when the book Ender's Game became a (flop) movie. Now, while that particular book wasn't reflective of Card's viewpoints, most of his other works were, to a disturbing extent (including a version of Hamlet that's just sickening). Or Frank Miller's intensive line of terrible Islamophobic comics that he swears were comedy just before his rant on Occupy protesters more or less telling them they're better of use to fight those guys instead. Hard to ignore ignorant viewpoints from a writer and to try to enjoy their work when it creeps in.

Then there's the other side of these things where the artist in question...well...wasn't that good to begin with. Like Jenny MacCarthy. Sorry, not sorry, but if I'm going to take unfounded, unscientific, and dangerous logic from anyone, it's definitely not going to be the star of something like Dirty Love. Now, I am no fan of ****-shaming. Not at all. But her entire career is based on her being sexy. She doesn't have any talent, she basically is just there and when she does get work, it's terrible crap. Why should anyone take seriously someone who isn't even a serious actress?

But back to the main subject... I think there's a strange level of disproportionate anger when it comes to the celebrity. I'm not going to further discuss Cosby. But it seems that some celebs are more forgivable than others and some have very minor things against them that destroy their career. To me, Michael Richards did something outrageously stupid, and it's clear that it was a mistake to even try stand-up if he can't handle hecklers. Then again, his post-Seinfeld career really didn't take. Meanwhile, Mel Gibson does something objectively worse (lest we forget, he was drunk driving as well), and came out with a very anti-semetic movie at the same time. He was given a "you're on thin ice" second chance and blew it. Blew it BIIIIIIG time.

Then there's the case of AHNOLD. Now, while I said it before, when politicians have an affair or do something else sexually stupid, there's a strange level of forgiveness and condemnation. Newt did what Edwards did and was still a high figure, and one of the huge family values guys who ran off with another woman came back and won the state because party loyalty. Ahnold is inbetween celebrity and politician. And inbetween that he had an affair. And the shame is, because of that, we lost this piece of inspired insanity. (some sourpuss music middleman forced them to mute the audio for this one)

HOLY...CRAP! Dude could have flat out murder someone and we still should have seen that cartoon series. We lost a masterpiece because of one mildly bad thing he did.

Combine that with the stateside failure of the last Terminator movie (which was a dumb idea anyway), and now he's doing commercials for some app based scam...errr... game. Shame that he fell so hard on that.

Still...*&^%$ we lost out on that cartoon.

 

[mr3urious]

If it was one or two women, it would seem credible. Now we're up to what, fifty at last count?

Like Kevin Clash, all these other women coming forward makes it feel like they're just extorting Cos by this point.

 

[D'Snowth]

Same thing happened to Tiger Woods too: more and more women he was having affairs with came out of the woodwork, but I think in a case like that, some of it was extortion, because a lot of those women tried to make themselves out to be the victims in the situation: "Oh, I totally knew he was married, and I totally knew he was loaded for money, but he still shouldn't have cheated on his wife with me! How dare he!"

 

[fuzzygobo]

Same thing happened to Tiger Woods too: more and more women he was having affairs with came out of the woodwork, but I think in a case like that, some of it was extortion, because a lot of those women tried to make themselves out to be the victims in the situation: "Oh, I totally knew he was married, and I totally knew he was loaded for money, but he still shouldn't have cheated on his wife with me! How dare he!"

Yes. It takes two to tango.

 

[MuppetSpot]

Like Kevin Clash, all these other women coming forward makes it feel like they're just extorting Cos by this point.

I still believe Clash is innocent.

 

[charlietheowl]

I meant to post this yesterday so here it is:

Bill Cosby was much more famous and loved than Chris Brown. I think part of the reason for the backlash for Cosby was because so many people looked up to him so what he did made many people feel betrayed. Not to mention Cosby has always been this wholesome fatherly figure and the media loves to see wholesome things go bad. Plus what Cosby did was much creepier and effected more people than what Brown did.

This hits the nail on the head. The public perception of each person colors how they're perceived after a scandal. Bill Cosby, depending on your perspective, was either a righteous moral guardian, so it was like seeing your dad get besmirched when the news broke, or he was a hypocritical know-it-all, so he was getting his just desserts when he got into trouble. Someone like Michael Richards didn't have the larger than life persona of Bill Cosby, so his slow re-entry into pop culture wasn't a huge deal.

Society's really fickle about these things too. Roman Polanski still has his defenders after 40 years of being a fugitive. Adrian Peterson walked away from child abuse charges into a nice "redemption" narrative with the Minnesota Vikings this year while after going to prison, losing his job with the Falcons, declaring bankruptcy and having to re-earn his spot in the NFL, people still protested Michael Vick being in the league this year. Public opinion is unpredictable.

 

[Drtooth]

Like Kevin Clash, all these other women coming forward makes it feel like they're just extorting Cos by this point.

Certainly there are cases of those who extort and exploit something like this, and frankly, they're worse than the accused. Not only are they taking advantage of a bad situation, but they also hurt the persecution. They take away their credibility, damaging the situation for the real victims. Now, I'm sure that there are a few of those in this case, and they're doing a bang up job of making the public think this is one of those cases. But for the most part, I think there's a solid case here.

Now, I get it. When someone's that big and influential, there's a huge hesitation to come forward. I just wish that more victims would stand up for themselves and seek action when these things go down, rather than suffering in silence for years. Otherwise, when a bunch of victims gang up on someone when they seek legal action years later, we get the kind of mindset that they're mostly their to exploit the situation.

Same thing happened to Tiger Woods too: more and more women he was having affairs with came out of the woodwork, but I think in a case like that, some of it was extortion, because a lot of those women tried to make themselves out to be the victims in the situation: "Oh, I totally knew he was married, and I totally knew he was loaded for money, but he still shouldn't have cheated on his wife with me! How dare he!"

The difference is that not only were all relationships here consensual, but the women who Tiger cheated on his wife with were pretty much gold diggers from the start. Those types aren't one to say, "I flat out refuse to sleep with a celebrity because it would damage his/her career" or "I'm attracted to him for his everything but being famous and having money." They knew that somehow, they'd find their way into a payoff, one way or another.

This hits the nail on the head. The public perception of each person colors how they're perceived after a scandal. Bill Cosby, depending on your perspective, was either a righteous moral guardian, so it was like seeing your dad get besmirched when the news broke, or he was a hypocritical know-it-all, so he was getting his just desserts when he got into trouble. Someone like Michael Richards didn't have the larger than life persona of Bill Cosby, so his slow re-entry into pop culture wasn't a huge deal.

Micheal Richards was at the end of his career anyway. Way after it, in fact. Had he not been part of a sitcom that has become one of the biggest of all time (cough cough, Curb your Enthusiasm is better), no one would have cared.

Yet... there are those who pretty much make a career out of doing heinous stuff. Look at former punchline Gallagher. He went from wacky joke of a joke to a horrifyingly racist kook. He still somehow manages to get comedy gigs. And what he says is worse than what Michael Richards did in a moment of anger and poor judgement.

Mel Gibson was given at least 3 chances before society collectively decided naaaawww. Seriously, the high orthodox Catholic anti-semitism in his family's history didn't turn people off en mass. It took like 2 other nasty incidents to ruin his career. That's less of a chance a once beloved celebrity who did one bad movie out of overexposure gets before they're a punchline at best or essentially blacklisted from making anything but bad movies ever again. It is fickle as heck. But then again, most celebrities that screw up once get to stay out of the public eye for a while and come back bigger than ever. Mel destroyed all his chances. The Hangover movies forgave Mike Tyson, who was in the period of turning his life around, but they'd be darned if Mel Gibson was to get a cameo.

 

[Drtooth]

I just recently came into a depressing variation of this.

I can't find Robin Williams funny anymore. I'm one of his biggest fans, but now every time I see him in something I just can't and change the channel. Just seeing him depresses the heck out of me. And I got a great Genie from Alladin T-Shirt for Christmas, too. Considering the grim final events of his life, I just can't find the joy and wackiness in any of his performances. I felt the same way for years about Phil Hartman, though. Still kinda do, not to mention anger for what happened to him.

 

[CensoredAlso]

I just recently came into a depressing variation of this.

I can't find Robin Williams funny anymore. I'm one of his biggest fans, but now every time I see him in something I just can't and change the channel. Just seeing him depresses the heck out of me. And I got a great Genie from Alladin T-Shirt for Christmas, too. Considering the grim final events of his life, I just can't find the joy and wackiness in any of his performances. I felt the same way for years about Phil Hartman, though. Still kinda do, not to mention anger for what happened to him.

I was one of those people literally crying when I heard the news. But the way I see it, comedy isn't the opposite of sadness. We use comedy to combat the sadness and address the ills of society. Plus, his work was so vibrant, it feels like he's still alive when I watch it. I mean he had an artistic legacy that was larger than his human life, if that makes sense.

 

[D'Snowth]

We use comedy to combat the sadness and address the ills of society.

Exactly. That's one of the reasons why TV sitcoms were so wacky and outlandish during the 60s: that was a rocky decade in American history in terms of things like war, civil rights, bucking the establishment, assassinations and such - sitcoms during that time were a form of refuge from all of that, particularly fantasy shows like BEWITCHED and I DREAM OF JEANNIE.