Separating the art from the artist: Is it always possible?

[mr3urious]

I got to thinking recently about Bill Cosby and his alleged sexual assault controversies, and it made me wonder: is it still right to enjoy his past work and laugh at his jokes given all this? And does some of the stuff in his infamous "Pound Cake Speech" from 2004 suddenly become irrelevant now?

No celebrity has had a spotless record of public behavior; look at many of the guest stars on Sesame Street and The Muppet Show for some examples. And I can like some celebs as people but can't stand the work they do, and vice versa. But what does make Cosby so different from the others, and why does the public have to be so unforgiving for the stuff he did in the past (as they often are)? If Chris Brown can get away with beating up Rihanna and come out stronger for it, then why can't Cos?

 

[D'Snowth]

Well, people still love Kramer despite Michael Richards's infamous meltdown at that comedy club where he hurled racial epithets at hecklers. People still like Bill Clinton despite all the extra marital affairs he's had over the years. People still root for Trump everytime he opens his big mouth. We still love Kevin Clash despite his past allegations of grooming underaged men.

 

[Drtooth]

There's a mark difference between celebrities and politicians. Sure, Bill Clinton beat the rap from his affairs, but he's essentially the only one (still alive) that's been forgiven by the Dems. John Edwards did something despicable, and he's dead to the party. Yet, Newt Gingrich did the same thing (all the while leading the charge to impeach Clinton), and is still a beloved member of the GOP. Even tried to run last election. And there's a leap of hypocrisy here. Remember the guy from Grey's Anatomy that called one of the actors a gay slur? Horrible, horrible, irredeemable monster that needs to be fired. Politician says the same thing and it's "oh, it's just that party being that party." Even gets votes. Collectively, we punish celebs for exhibiting the same views that we elect certain politicians for. The difference is, oh I dunno, the celebrities don't run the darn country.

Anyway...

I got to thinking recently about Bill Cosby and his alleged sexual assault controversies, and it made me wonder: is it still right to enjoy his past work and laugh at his jokes given all this? And does some of the stuff in his infamous "Pound Cake Speech" from 2004 suddenly become irrelevant now?

I'm very conflicted about this sort of thing. Some celebs do some outright terrible stuff, and it's disproportionate considering which celebrity it is. Like the Olympic swimmer who used not performance enhancing, completely recreational pot that one time, yet certain celebrities pretty much build their personas on being potheads. One lost multiple deals for doing something that, frankly, isn't any worse than drinking. It's not like he was dealing it to kids. But there's that "all sports people are role models, nay, GODS because they can do a sport" thing.

I could list a bunch of celebs and crazy crap they did, but I'm going to have to cut to the chase with Cosby. I am incredibly conflicted by this. To me it's not just a matter of "he did something bad but also a funny." It's he was a philanthropist and a man who people looked up to that actually had some important things to say who also drugged and raped women on the side. And what's worse, it worked into some of his art, too. He had a stand up bit about it, it was an episode of the Cosby show with the barbecue sauce. Now, what gets me is that these allegations popped up years ago and no one said much about it other than maybe a Cleveland Show joke and an unfortunately timed episode of Black Dynamite that came out just as the more [darn]ing allegations popped back up. I've said before Fat Albert is one of the few 1970's cartoons I feel was quality, and this really complicates everything. Of course, Bill basically just makes live action appearances and does voice work, and to throw the entire show out is to throw out the talented writers that actually made the show out of a comedy routine.

Then of course, there's always the French dub. To my knowledge the guy they used to localize the show didn't do nothin'..

But the thing about Cosby is that he was a bastion for morals and action in the community that did freaking awful stuff while he was doing it. I was a big big fan and all, and that's what made me angry the most. That he was able to do good while doing bad. Now, there's always Tim Allen who not only did crack, but finked on all his friends and he's the iconic voice of a children's movie spaceman. Mathew Broderick had a vehicular homicide. And Robert Downey Jr. had his career shattered until he played a certain Marvel comics billionaire who had the same problem with alcohol. And that stuff is on levels of questionable but forgivable. It's the moral standing, I feel, and repeated transgressions that keep me from fully enjoying Bill's work the way I used to. I mean, I'm keeping my Fat Albert DVD's and Vinyl figures.

Yet, there are those who don't embrace Mike Tyson Mysteries because he did bad stuff when he was a boxer. At least his show was done years after he got help and wasn't directed to kids.

 

[Pig'sSaysAdios]

I got to thinking recently about Bill Cosby and his alleged sexual assault controversies, and it made me wonder: is it still right to enjoy his past work and laugh at his jokes given all this? And does some of the stuff in his infamous "Pound Cake Speech" from 2004 suddenly become irrelevant now?

No celebrity has had a spotless record of public behavior; look at many of the guest stars on Sesame Street and The Muppet Show for some examples. And I can like some celebs as people but can't stand the work they do, and vice versa. But what does make Cosby so different from the others, and why does the public have to be so unforgiving for the stuff he did in the past (as they often are)? If Chris Brown can get away with beating up Rihanna and come out stronger for it, then why can't Cos?

I meant to post this yesterday so here it is:

Bill Cosby was much more famous and loved than Chris Brown. I think part of the reason for the backlash for Cosby was because so many people looked up to him so what he did made many people feel betrayed. Not to mention Cosby has always been this wholesome fatherly figure and the media loves to see wholesome things go bad. Plus what Cosby did was much creepier and effected more people than what Brown did.

 

[Drtooth]

That's my sentiments exactly. Unlike most celebrities he was a huge bastion of morality that no one really had a problem with. Some celebs that take a moral highground on whatever issue come off completely d-baggy. Look at Kirk Cameron or some generic leftist celebrity that takes up a cause for the wrong reasons. There were those who didn't like some extent of what Cosby was saying, but felt he had a point. I feel the best illustration of this was the Black Dynamite episode about him. The news was horrifying to his fans because they went in to either the say it isn't so or denial mode. I think that's why this is so much of a shock. If this happened to say, Glenn Beck, it would be all...eh I was hoping that scumbag would do something scumbaggy. But it's a guy who's been a huge father figure to the point that, before the allegations, he was fun to make fun of. The Jell-O pudding and the sweaters and the weird rambling way he speaks sometimes.

Rappers...well... that's different. There's that whole bad boy image going and a lot of those artists get caught doing what you'd expect them to get caught with (only because the culture glorifies it, which pretty much goes against the thesis of saying "this is our world and it kinda sucks"). There's a whole rant in here between real gangster rap and marketable, cartoonish Gangsta Rap, but that's a rabbit hole topic. It's all about how you're seen by the audience.

Like, Two and a Half Men. Yeah. Charlie Sheen has an obvious history of doing what he does and was hired because of those reasons. Then stuff went down and he left the show and wasn't welcome back, and you're like...dude, the chicken said it best, "You knew the job was dangerous when you took it."

 

[Pig'sSaysAdios]

Yep,I think it's largely about the expectations we have for each specific person.

 

[D'Snowth]

And Robert Downey Jr. had his career shattered until he played a certain Marvel comics billionaire who had the same problem with alcohol.

Slightly off topic, but have you seen any of the B-movies his father did in the 70s? I would say that was probably a contributing factor to some of his problems . . . they're like if the movies were done by Mel Brooks who had no actual budget and was stoned out of his mind and decided he wasn't going to try to be funny. I dare you to look up GREASER'S PALACE on YouTube: it actually stars Sidney Freedman from M*A*S*H in his first-ever acting role.

 

[fuzzygobo]

I'm also torn with Cosby's allegations. Because he was regarded as a standard bearer for how black men should act, it makes him look like a complete hypocrite IF the allegations are true.
Yes, he was a staple of my childhood: Sesame Street, Electric Company, Fat Albert, PicturePages, a truckload of Jello Pudding Pops, ànd some of the funniest standup albums ever. But that doesn't give him a free pass IF the allegations are true.
If it was one or two women, it would seem credible. Now we're up to what, fifty at last count?
There was one case that was settled out of court, so some people could be bought off, IF the allegations are true. But as one or two became fifty, it made me wonder how many were just looking for a big payday (Lou Ferrigno's wife being one of them).
It also made me wonder why some would wait decades to come forward. But then again, many women were meant to feel rape was totally their fault and any mention would only shame them more.
If Cosby is guilty, he should pay the price, even if it leaves him penniless or in jail. The biggest shame is that a lifetime of goodwill can get wiped out with the bang of a judge's gavel.
I still thank him for all the laughs his albums ("Wonderfulness", "Revenge", and the epic " To Russell, My Brother") gave me. Laughs so hard your ribs hurt.

 

[MuppetSpot]

You should go over to Frys they the Cosby DVDs for 5 bucks.

 

[CensoredAlso]

I do think if Cosby hadn't presented himself as such a conservative, the backlash wouldn't have been as severe. Does he deserve to be let off the hook? Definitely not. But is there a double standard? Definitely yes.

As far as separating art from artists, I think you have to try and look at it like a biographer might, the kind that tries to maintain an intellectual distance. Examine how different aspects of the artist's personality, both the good and bad, influenced their work. You're not condoning what they did, you're simply putting their life and art into perspective.

As far as Cosby, if he did what they said he did, he's a very disturbed person. I hate what he did, but I also pity that he didn't get help much sooner.