Is there an overrated/underrated Muppet production?

[CensoredAlso]

Muppet Babies *hides from angry fans*

As well you should

 

[Drtooth]

Muppet Babies was a fine preschool-Kindergarten, maybe first grade show. At least compared to the insipid shout back at the TV garbage Nickelodeon started. Let's face it. The 80's were kind of a mixed bag as far as cartoons go. We all love TMNT, Transformers, G.I. Joe and Disney afternoon. But the cloyingness of some of the more forgotten pieces (especially Paw Paws. Seriously... Screw Paw Paws and everyone who was involved. Even the Smurfs looked Hardcore next to them and their lame complainer is always wrong), and the lameness of some of the network action shows (bowing to pressure from those ACT dinks) were unforgivable and unenjoyable on any level. There are some that are just bad and not Chuck Norris Karate Commandos/Mr. T's stupid thing that wasn't an A-Team cartoon so bad it's good. Just bad bad. So MB wasn't bad if you put it in 80's cartoon perspective.

As a Muppet project, I sort of agree. It's not the same thing. There weren't many major Muppet projects around that era, so MB was essentially all we got (unless anyone with premium cable channel HBO counts and saw Fraggle Rock, itself a pretty underrated Henson production). And unless you grew up in just the right spot, that was essentially all the Muppets some viewers got. Not to mention the fact it started the horrible baby versions/off spring of famous cartoon characters that gave us such hits as Pink Panther and Sons, Popeye and Son, and eventually Yo Yogi, the WORST and most cynical of the bunch. (to be fair, Pup Named Scooby-Doo is one of my favorite iterations of the character, and Flitnstones Kids isn't all that bad). Not to mention the unfortunate trend downward of Muppet kiddy productions.

So my verdict is, eh... I was young enough to get into it and like it, and some episodes do hold up nicely if your into it. Toei was much more adapt at realistic/robotic animations for the US market, but by the second season they managed to capture a cartoonier look. The Akom episodes are awful. Too bad Marvel didn't have access to Tokyo Movie (the Japanese company that gave us great outsourcing on Ducktales and Animaniacs) due to a deal they made with Toei in the 70's.
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As for a project that's underrated, I feel the BOOM comics, while they have their following, are depressingly overlooked when it comes to some Muppet fans. Even among them, I'd say the most underrated of the comics was Muppet Snow White. There is a consensus among Muppet comic readers it is the best of the "Muppet Classics" subline, and it shows. Among other things, they took the format of MCC and MTI and did them right, by casting Muppets as all the roles, giving one of the worst characters ever created in Muppet history a new lease. Even Piggy managed to have been better cast as the Wicked Queen than she was in the Muppet Babies episode. The EM successfully replaces the Dwarves, giving it a great angle and making them the stars of the book. I mean, Peter Pan and King Arthur were really good too, but Snow White hit a spark, and unfortunately so late in the series run.

Meanwhile, Robin Hood suffered from lack of direction, too much infodump dialogue, and artwork that was the result of poor communication (the artist swears that he though Boom wanted him to ape Roger's style), but did have a nice collection of characters. Sherlock Holmes wasn't bad, but favored gags to plot, shoehorning Kermit into the stories as a non-reluctant LaStrade, and was a disappointing ending to the line. Amy's Art was top notch as always, though.

 

[Ladywarrior]

i feel the great muppet caper is a bit under rated. It was my favorite muppet film as a kid but if you ask someone about muppets films how many will actually mention the muppet caper? some people i've talked to about muppets haven't even heard of it!

 

[dwayne1115]

Muppet Babies was a fine preschool-Kindergarten, maybe first grade show. At least compared to the insipid shout back at the TV garbage Nickelodeon started. Let's face it. The 80's were kind of a mixed bag as far as cartoons go. We all love TMNT, Transformers, G.I. Joe and Disney afternoon. But the cloyingness of some of the more forgotten pieces (especially Paw Paws. Seriously... Screw Paw Paws and everyone who was involved. Even the Smurfs looked Hardcore next to them and their lame complainer is always wrong), and the lameness of some of the network action shows (bowing to pressure from those ACT dinks) were unforgivable and unenjoyable on any level. There are some that are just bad and not Chuck Norris Karate Commandos/Mr. T's stupid thing that wasn't an A-Team cartoon so bad it's good. Just bad bad. So MB wasn't bad if you put it in 80's cartoon perspective.

As a Muppet project, I sort of agree. It's not the same thing. There weren't many major Muppet projects around that era, so MB was essentially all we got (unless anyone with premium cable channel HBO counts and saw Fraggle Rock, itself a pretty underrated Henson production). And unless you grew up in just the right spot, that was essentially all the Muppets some viewers got. Not to mention the fact it started the horrible baby versions/off spring of famous cartoon characters that gave us such hits as Pink Panther and Sons, Popeye and Son, and eventually Yo Yogi, the WORST and most cynical of the bunch. (to be fair, Pup Named Scooby-Doo is one of my favorite iterations of the character, and Flitnstones Kids isn't all that bad). Not to mention the unfortunate trend downward of Muppet kiddy productions.

So my verdict is, eh... I was young enough to get into it and like it, and some episodes do hold up nicely if your into it. Toei was much more adapt at realistic/robotic animations for the US market, but by the second season they managed to capture a cartoonier look. The Akom episodes are awful. Too bad Marvel didn't have access to Tokyo Movie (the Japanese company that gave us great outsourcing on Ducktales and Animaniacs) due to a deal they made with Toei in the 70's.
____________________________________________________________
As for a project that's underrated, I feel the BOOM comics, while they have their following, are depressingly overlooked when it comes to some Muppet fans. Even among them, I'd say the most underrated of the comics was Muppet Snow White. There is a consensus among Muppet comic readers it is the best of the "Muppet Classics" subline, and it shows. Among other things, they took the format of MCC and MTI and did them right, by casting Muppets as all the roles, giving one of the worst characters ever created in Muppet history a new lease. Even Piggy managed to have been better cast as the Wicked Queen than she was in the Muppet Babies episode. The EM successfully replaces the Dwarves, giving it a great angle and making them the stars of the book. I mean, Peter Pan and King Arthur were really good too, but Snow White hit a spark, and unfortunately so late in the series run.

Meanwhile, Robin Hood suffered from lack of direction, too much infodump dialogue, and artwork that was the result of poor communication (the artist swears that he though Boom wanted him to ape Roger's style), but did have a nice collection of characters. Sherlock Holmes wasn't bad, but favored gags to plot, shoehorning Kermit into the stories as a non-reluctant LaStrade, and was a disappointing ending to the line. Amy's Art was top notch as always, though.

I would have to agree with you about the comics. I really wanted to see them do those motion comics as well. The sad thing about the comics is there where a lot of people from the comic book industry who really put a lot of heart into those, and it's just sad to see that they are no longer making them.

 

[Drtooth]

If the writers and artists are to be believed, Boom's management back then was the reason the Disney license expired. Personally, I'm glad we didn't get the motion comics, because nothing was as good as reading and imagining the original Muppet performers' voices. The preview of the motion comics didn't really impress me looking back, and I'd rather have seen more effort in releasing the Four Seasons arc back when Boom had the license instead of the almost 2 years under Marvel. or, better yet, a decent closing to the classics line. It's a shame that Muppet Sleepy Hollow was passed up.

I'm glad to see Disney's original comics line up land at IDW, and I'm happy to hear of a new Darkwing Duck series in the undefined future. I just didn't get the point of Disney pulling the license to give to Marvel when Marvel rarely did any Disney comics under their ownership. Weird, as you'd expect them to enforce them to. They only really did that with Star Wars and recently to boot.

Then I have to wonder. Could The Muppet Show Comic Book continue without Langridge? I'd love to see more Muppet comics in the future, but will they be as good? I don't want to say someone's the end all be all, but I honestly feel that roger not only captured the essence of The Muppet Show, but improved it (among other things taking the action out of the theater). I have no doubt we'd still get some great stuff. But you wonder if we'd get someone aping Roger's style, or even just doing The Muppet Show in comic form instead of various Muppet stories.

 

[D'Snowth]

As far as overrated productions go: VMX. Dear lord, VMX.

I understand Simpsons are really cool and all, but you have to keep in mind, the Simpsons and the Muppets have two very different styles of humor, and you can't really expect writers from to try and write that kind of humor for the other and vice-versa. Simpsons humor doesn't work with the Muppets, and I doubt Muppet humor would work with the Simpsons unless they did it intentionally in a parodic way. Not to mention, as Drtooth has mentioned several times before, just look at all the pop-culture references that are painfully outdated now. And yes, I'm aware MOZ had similar problems with adult/Simpson-esque humor, but it was a bit more stealth that time around.

With all the things wrong with this movie, I just don't understand why it gets all the praise and adoration that it does.

 

[Ladywarrior]

As far as overrated productions go: VMX. Dear lord, VMX.

I understand Simpsons are really cool and all, but you have to keep in mind, the Simpsons and the Muppets have two very different styles of humor, and you can't really expect writers from to try and write that kind of humor for the other and vice-versa. Simpsons humor doesn't work with the Muppets, and I doubt Muppet humor would work with the Simpsons unless they did it intentionally in a parodic way. Not to mention, as Drtooth has mentioned several times before, just look at all the pop-culture references that are painfully outdated now. And yes, I'm aware MOZ had similar problems with adult/Simpson-esque humor, but it was a bit more stealth that time around.

With all the things wrong with this movie, I just don't understand why it gets all the praise and adoration that it does.

I don't like that movie. You telling me a bunch of people like that film? the only part i enjoyed as kermit and daniel winding up briefly in a star wars universe and kermit freaking out over yoda.

 

[Muppet Master]

As far as overrated productions go: VMX. Dear lord, VMX.

I understand Simpsons are really cool and all, but you have to keep in mind, the Simpsons and the Muppets have two very different styles of humor, and you can't really expect writers from to try and write that kind of humor for the other and vice-versa. Simpsons humor doesn't work with the Muppets, and I doubt Muppet humor would work with the Simpsons unless they did it intentionally in a parodic way. Not to mention, as Drtooth has mentioned several times before, just look at all the pop-culture references that are painfully outdated now. And yes, I'm aware MOZ had similar problems with adult/Simpson-esque humor, but it was a bit more stealth that time around.

With all the things wrong with this movie, I just don't understand why it gets all the praise and adoration that it does.

How is overated, most people here say it was really bad, for me it was a relief for the muppets to go back to edgy adult humor, after all their movies aimed at a younger audience before that.

 

[Ladywarrior]

^ i know muppets have always had adult humor but in the muppet show it was pretty subtle. I don't remember them talking about topless women in the show. It's called being subtle.

 

[D'Snowth]

How is overated, most people here say it was really bad

We must know different most people here, because I find most people here shower it with nothing but praise.

Yes, the Muppets' humor has strived into edgy/adult directions before, but it was always a more sophisticated edgy/adult humor that wasn't too off-color for kids - VMX,on the other hand, just got really inappropriate at times, which is why I said Simpsons humor and Muppet humor just don't mix.