Muppets Most Wanted: What went wrong?

[CensoredAlso]

I guess more movie goers wanted another emotionally manipulative fan fic

Actually, yeah! Have you guys seen The Muppet Movie and The Muppets Take Manhattan? They're two of the most emotionally manipulative movies that ever lived, lol. And they're both about getting the band together. And they were both well received and continue to be beloved. And I'll even add to that Muppet Christmas Carol, which is over flowing with tear inducing musical numbers, and remains a beloved holiday tradition for many. Great Muppet Caper has its fans too, but it's very often relegated to third place because it's nowhere near as sentimental.

Though, Great Muppet Caper actually put it best: "Hey, a movie!" When you transition from a TV show to a movie, you do have to go bigger and raise the stakes. Which is why MMW should have been about Piggy marrying the wrong frog.

You want a movie where Kermit gets cancer

Fans were cool with a movie where Kermit gets run over by a car. I think that says it all.

 

[jvcarroll]

No secret that I was not a fan of MMW. But just because I didn't think it was a good movie, doesn't mean that's why it didn't do well.

The Muppets (2011) had an easy hook - we're getting the band back together! That's epic right there. And you had this hero figure in Jason Segel, who defied the initial indifference of Disney and championed the Muppets' return. That's inspiring right there.

Muppets Most Wanted's hook - a Russian Kermit imposter - it sounds like a 10th season plot line to an 80's sitcom. It could work with the right marketing, if they'd played to nostalgia like The Muppets (2011) did. I just think marketing had no idea how to make that seem as epic as "we're getting the band back together!" I agree with that TP article, the ads should have focused more on the wedding and Piggy potentially marrying the wrong frog.

Plus Segel, the hero figure is gone. In his place are two completely random writers that just feel like hired guns; the public didn't know or care about them. The public knew and cared about Jim Henson. And they knew and cared about Jason Segel. To make up for this, I guess they tried to put Ricky Gervais in the foreground, but he wasn't a creator with an inspiring story.

It would have been nice if the Muppet performers themselves were more known to the general public, and therefore more of a draw. But, let's be honest, not even Jim pushed most of them forward. Only the most die hard fans remembered their names. The general public knew Frank Oz because Miss Piggy and Star Wars were very popular. And nowadays, we have Disney, who think children will have a freak out if they see a puppeteer.

Plus, and I think most important, the reason the Muppets were able to do movies in the old days at all is because they had a popular TV show.

So, that's the best I can do at the moment. MMW just didn't have a hook. Though it's worth mentioning, clearly, the word of mouth wasn't too strong after it came out either.

I'm going to have to disagree with this almost in its entirety. ​

I think MMW has more of a hook than the three Muppet films before it. The plot is one of the most Muppety things about the film. The Muppets aren't highbrow and precious. Until MTM the Muppets weren't all about weddings either so I'm glad the advertising didn't focus on that tired old chestnut. The only criticism I have with the plot is that it is over-plotted. There were gags in the ads that didn't seem to make the film. That's likely due to the fact that they didn't help propel the story forward and I think that's one of the very few mistakes MMW makes.

I applaud Segel for helping to bring the gang back, but I'm not convinced he understood the Muppets' humor. In fact, there have been many behind the scenes reports that point to a struggle. I enjoyed his "greatest hits" commercial of a film, but people pining for the 2011 tone are not pining for the Frank Oz standard - and that's the standard I go by.

The Muppets aren't supposed to be about pointing to Jim Henson in reverence. They aren't about nostalgia-baiting. That's the opposite of what they're about. They're fuzzy anarchists who are still unclear about what Jim's role was. While all of these elements were welcomed in the reintroduction, it was time to leave them behind. That's the best way to honor Jim's memory. Just let the Muppets be Muppets. And that's what this film did more than any other cinematic effort since they took Manhattan 30 years prior.

People need a reason to see films these days and they felt no reason to shell out cash to visit the Muppets in theaters last March. Most people wait for video and ondemand these days. Heck, even a lot of fans do. You know what I call these fans? Bad fans! (in an Animal voice).

The Muppets' commercials and ad campaigns were highly successful in that people enjoyed them. Unfortunately that didn't translate into ticket sales. But that's not a complete loss. The ads were so cross-promoted that they paid for themselves. In the end, MMW made its budget back and a small bit of profit too. So what does this tell us? People want to see the Muppets on the small screen. And that's the part of your post that I agree with. Disney needs to figure out a way to broadcast, YouTube or stream new content to us and we'll watch it. The mountain isn't going to come to the Muppets. The Muppets have to go to the mountain...er...viewer's homes.

 

[Drtooth]

Actually, yeah! Have you guys seen The Muppet Movie and The Muppets Take Manhattan? They're two of the most emotionally manipulative movies that ever lived, lol. And they're both about getting the band together. And they were both well received and continue to be beloved. And I'll even add to that Muppet Christmas Carol, which is over flowing with tear inducing musical numbers, and remains a beloved holiday tradition for many. Great Muppet Caper has its fans too, but it's very often relegated to third place because it's nowhere near as sentimental.

Well, I'd say that The Muppet Movie and Muppets take Manhattan were emotional, but not manipulatively so. Heck, Tm is in TV Trope's page for Sadist Show...

Have you ever seen a group of characters get [crapped] upon as badly as Kermit and the gang does in this movie? Even the ending is more or less a depressingly unhappy one.

I really don't want to speak ill of the tone, since it worked for that movie specifically. They were a little heavy handed in the world without the Muppets bit though. I think the Reno bit and the reality show joke were just enough.

I don't want it to go down as me saying that TMM and MTM are more genuine in emotion than TM, just Tm felt like an entire conspiracy was about to keep Kermit depressed and down outside of the reasons for it. And TMM would be more emotional rollercoaster. It manages to go from Bullwinkle quality snappy repartee to Kermit's emotional journey and talk with himself to parody gunfight at the OK Coral.

People need a reason to see films these days and they felt no reason to shell out cash to visit the Muppets in theaters last March. Most people wait for video and ondemand these days. Heck, even a lot of fans do. You know what I call these fans? Bad fans! (in an Animal voice).

The Muppets' commercials and ad campaigns were highly successful in that people enjoyed them. Unfortunately that didn't translate into ticket sales. But that's not a complete loss. The ads were so cross-promoted that they paid for themselves. In the end, MMW made its budget back and a small bit of profit too. So what does this tell us? People want to see the Muppets on the small screen. And that's the part of your post that I agree with. Disney needs to figure out a way to broadcast, YouTube or stream new content to us and we'll watch it. The mountain isn't going to come to the Muppets. The Muppets have to go to the mountain...er...viewer's homes.

My sentiments exactly. Netflix and Redbox are kinda screwing their own industry in as many ways as they're revolutionizing them. The entire Box Office was down this year, partially for that reason. And while we can call fans bad or good on how they chose to see the film if any (I went to a convention the weekend it opened and made darn well sure to rush to the theater afterwards on the last day of it), the more causal fans who only get their Muppet fix on Family Guy cutscenes would probably rather waited until a day they were bored and it was on Netflix. And again, 40 bucks for a family to see one thing vs 8 bucks a month to see a lot of things... unless it's huge and noisey enough to demand to be seen on the big screen, it's a cheaper, better option.

But I agree completely. We need another venue for the Muppets besides movies. Why did they stop doing viral videos? How come they haven't thought about putting material, old or new on Netflix other than a couple movies? I don't think TV is the right fit for them other than the occasional special, but an internet series is prime for the Muppets. For all of Henson, actually. SW is putting it's British Sesame program for Britain on Youtube rather than forcing it into the show.

 

[minor muppetz]

People keep mentioning that people will want to wait until it's on Netflix, but there's no guarantee that a movie will come to Netflix once it's on video. Is there an estimated time between the average gap between the theatrical release and Netflix premiere of a movie? Fans might need to wait years before it's on Netflix (I don't think The Muppets has ever even been on Netflix).

 

[jvcarroll]

Also, I find it bizarre to claim that any particular film is "emotionally manipulative."

The first sentence uttered by my college film school teacher on the first day of Film 101 was "ALL FILM IS MANIPULATION." Even they driest of documentaries are emotionally manipulative. Every choice (from the subject they choose to where they place the camera and what footage is used) is made to serve the director's vision. No matter how a director might try to take their perspective out of the equation, something will always peek through. There is no neutral "Switzerland" in film.

The only difference between what is considered manipulative and non-manipulative is how skillfully a film's director is at concealing the manipulation.

 

[Drtooth]

The only difference between what is considered manipulative and non-manipulative is how skillfully a film's director is at concealing the manipulation.

The Muppets was as subtle with it as a brick to the head. It worked for the film, but it had the negative effect of film goers wanting an extra emotional punch. I liked TM and I think the tone suited the come back nature of the film, almost serving as an allegory for them struggling after Jim, but MMW didn't need that sort of punch. It had it's emotional moments, but was far more fun than depressing.

 

[jvcarroll]

The Muppets was as subtle with it as a brick to the head. It worked for the film, but it had the negative effect of film goers wanting an extra emotional punch. I liked TM and I think the tone suited the come back nature of the film, almost serving as an allegory for them struggling after Jim, but MMW didn't need that sort of punch. It had it's emotional moments, but was far more fun than depressing.

Exactly. Segel's Muppet film was more like the "teary-eyed long distance phone commercial" of Muppet films. Audiences were manipulated but in a way they wanted to be. But things like that can only come in small doses before cynicism sets in. The Muppets are known for their tender moments, but the entire film was a tender moment.

MMW really excited me because the classic humor was finally back. It took a back seat at times for the sake of plot points, but this is definitely the right direction. I fear Disney will want to lobotomize them after the lackluster box office numbers. Let's hope that doesn't happen. The fact that Brian Henson was impressed with the film and admitted it was the sort of film his father would have made says it all.

I'm treading on shaky ground by making this comparison, but I'm gonna brave it. Just as television show Family Guy was dead and canceled until people discovered it again on DVD. I think new Muppet content could be resurrected very much the same way on something like Hulu. I can imagine plenty of people slacking off in their cubicles at work by watching half hour Muppet Shows made for streaming. Commuters could watch the Muppets on their iPhones. Kids could watch them from their tablets on long car trips. That sort of thing. If Jim Henson was around these days, the Muppets would already be streaming.

 

[minor muppetz]

Actually, yeah! Have you guys seen The Muppet Movie and The Muppets Take Manhattan? They're two of the most emotionally manipulative movies that ever lived, lol. And they're both about getting the band together.

No, The Muppet Movie is about starting the band.

EDIT: Oops, I misread that as that they're both about getting the band back together.

 

[BeakerJanice]

If I'm honest...nothing is wrong with MMW!!I think it was a good and funny film!Only I think (for me)some muppets aren't enough in this film!Think of gonzo,think of b&B and think of some others!!And it would be better if this film wasn't WITHOUT bloopers in Germany!!IT WAS WITHOUT BLOOPERS!I mean...

 

[CensoredAlso]

No, The Muppet Movie is about starting the band.

EDIT: Oops, I misread that as that they're both about getting the band back together.

Actually I did say that originally and then made the correction, so it's all good.