Phil Robertson "Fired"

[Drtooth]

Begging your pardon for my ignorance on this subject. Maybe it's a generational thing I missed out on. But how would someone my age set about the task of watching tv ironically? (To me, it seems ironic if I can keep my eyes open til the end of the show, but there must be more to it than that).

You know when a movie is so bad that it's funny for being bad? And then when you watch it, you can't help but make comments about how awful it is? Sort of like what the MST3K guys do. That is watching something ironically.

That's a terribly misleading page. It wasn't Mr. Robertson's opinion that got him suspended. It was the disrespectful tone and unChrist-like nature of how he stated it. He didn't just paraphrase a Bible verse; he continued on to mock gay people and align the LGBT with terrorists and other very sordid and unrelated things. We all deserve respect and Mr. Robertson owes gays and African Americans an apology for his crude characterizations (not to be confused with his belief in the Bible). I'm sure the program would have him back if he were to swallow his pride and make amends. That would be the Christian thing to do.

That's what happens with our soundbite crazy media. The subtlety gets ignored, and the very reason why people should really be offended goes unnoticed. It's like the Chic-Fil-A thing last year. It wasn't so much that he was an anti-gay religious zealot.. he was an anti-gay rich zealot with money of which he would give to anti-gay so called charities. The Paula Deen thing wasn't because she just said the N word, it was quite a complex legal case that uncovered a crapload of racism and poor conduct.

Fundamentalist Christians are going to "stand by" Robertson because of the imaginary persecution he has for his beliefs. Because as we all know, the one thing written in the bible that one time is the centerpiece of the religion verses literally everything else in the bible. He said something offensive, he lost his show (as superficially as it is), he still can continue to believe what he chooses to believe... but you know, the whole manipulative victimization of those who are losing a small chunk of the way too much power they have in this country. Fundie religions will continue to vilify homosexuality, but hate like that tends to fade with each generation. We're actually much more tolerant, and getting more with each generation. Mainly because they refuse to give a crap.

Meanwhile, I'm sure there's a lot of left of center/progressive Christians that agree that Phil is an idiot who shot his mouth off and have some site or blog about what a convenient Christian UnChristian he is. But no one will hear it because Fundies yell louder and longer.

 

[jvcarroll]

You know when a movie is so bad that it's funny for being bad? And then when you watch it, you can't help but make comments about how awful it is? Sort of like what the MST3K guys do. That is watching something ironically.



That's what happens with our soundbite crazy media. The subtlety gets ignored, and the very reason why people should really be offended goes unnoticed. It's like the Chic-Fil-A thing last year. It wasn't so much that he was an anti-gay religious zealot.. he was an anti-gay rich zealot with money of which he would give to anti-gay so called charities. The Paula Deen thing wasn't because she just said the N word, it was quite a complex legal case that uncovered a crapload of racism and poor conduct.

Fundamentalist Christians are going to "stand by" Robertson because of the imaginary persecution he has for his beliefs. Because as we all know, the one thing written in the bible that one time is the centerpiece of the religion verses literally everything else in the bible. He said something offensive, he lost his show (as superficially as it is), he still can continue to believe what he chooses to believe... but you know, the whole manipulative victimization of those who are losing a small chunk of the way too much power they have in this country. Fundie religions will continue to vilify homosexuality, but hate like that tends to fade with each generation. We're actually much more tolerant, and getting more with each generation. Mainly because they refuse to give a crap.

Meanwhile, I'm sure there's a lot of left of center/progressive Christians that agree that Phil is an idiot who shot his mouth off and have some site or blog about what a convenient Christian UnChristian he is. But no one will hear it because Fundies yell louder and longer.

I get tired of hearing about "Christian persecution" especially considering that's the majority religion in America.

• How many kids get kicked out of their homes because they are Christians?
• How many people get physically assaulted on the street because they appear to be Christian?
• How many people can still legally be fired from their job simply because they are Christian?
• How many Christians are prohibited from marrying the person they love?

This is the real prejudice and the true bigotry that is now slowly being set right. I defend all types of people. My only caveat is that they must treat others with dignity and respect. That's really not a hard thing to do, but too many Christians believe they are called upon to be mean-spirited zealots. That hypocritical behavior goes against the teachings of Jesus and there's no place for it!

 

[D'Snowth]

I got kicked out of a forum for being a Christian.

Okay, admittedly, I kind of had it coming, and Christianity was only a small fraction of what got me kicked out, however, persecution against Christians isn't non-existent either, it's just not as loud an issue as persecution against homosexuals. At least not in America, that I know of... now, I know in other parts of the world, in certain countries, yes, being a Christian can get you into trouble... I remember listening to a radio program a few years ago that would share the stories of people's past experiences with certain troubles of theirs and how their faith in God, or finding God, helped turned their lives around - one such story was a two-parter (it was a weekly program) of a man in Communist China, and how those who he had the misfortune of being involved with (I can't remember if he was mixed up with a government, or a military organization, or whatever), but he was constantly in trouble with others for believing in God. I don't remember the name of the program, but I do know they have a website where you can listen to previous stories they broadcasted over the years, they might have it, so if I could find that, I could listen again to see if I have all the details correct.

Now, as for myself, this happened years and years and years ago, some other old timers may actually remember this, but this was back when I was younger, more immature, and frankly went through a bit of an arrogant phase; I was already getting on people's nerves, the main reason being I pretty much rooted for the, "Weakest Link" that the rest of the fandom hated (kind of like if there were people here who kept talking about Elmo or Pepe)... that was the main issue, in addition to that, I was also, unfortunately, a lot more naive and "uneducated" back then on certain adult subjects, so that gave them something else for them to toy with me over. Finally, when they ended up finding out about me being a Christian, that was yet one more reason for them to all gang up on me over (apparently everyone at that forum was an atheist)... basically, they pretty much went out of their way to treat me like crap, and I made the mistake of trying to, "Take them on", so to speak, and fight back to defend myself. In the end, I was banned from the forum on the grounds that I was a trouble maker and was picking fights with everyone (in actuality, I wasn't the one picking the fights, they were... and believe it or not, a couple of years afterwards, apparently I came up in a discussion over there, and they admitted then that they intentionally were cyber-bullying me... and took pride in doing so too).

I hate seemingly like I keep "preaching" here, but one thing about Christianity is that once a person does accept Jesus and becomes a Christian, Satan considers that an act of war, so Satan pretty much will run amok, and when you least expect it, you're going to face some kind of persecution for your decision of accepting Jesus. Now, I'm not saying Satan is the reason Phil Robertson is under attack for voicing his opinion based on his faith, and I'm not exactly saying that Satan was also responsible for what I went through years ago, but once a person does become a Christian, that person becomes an enemy as far as Satan is concerned, and he does and will forward some form of persecution your way when you least expect it since he's basically, "At war" with you. So yeah, any kind of bigotry or prejudice against Christians do exist, it's just not made into some kind of big media frenzy like the bigotry or prejudice against homosexuals are.

 

[jvcarroll]

I got kicked out of a forum for being a Christian.

Okay, admittedly, I kind of had it coming, and Christianity was only a small fraction of what got me kicked out, however, persecution against Christians isn't non-existent either, it's just not as loud an issue as persecution against homosexuals. At least not in America, that I know of... now, I know in other parts of the world, in certain countries, yes, being a Christian can get you into trouble... I remember listening to a radio program a few years ago that would share the stories of people's past experiences with certain troubles of theirs and how their faith in God, or finding God, helped turned their lives around - one such story was a two-parter (it was a weekly program) of a man in Communist China, and how those who he had the misfortune of being involved with (I can't remember if he was mixed up with a government, or a military organization, or whatever), but he was constantly in trouble with others for believing in God. I don't remember the name of the program, but I do know they have a website where you can listen to previous stories they broadcasted over the years, they might have it, so if I could find that, I could listen again to see if I have all the details correct.

Now, as for myself, this happened years and years and years ago, some other old timers may actually remember this, but this was back when I was younger, more immature, and frankly went through a bit of an arrogant phase; I was already getting on people's nerves, the main reason being I pretty much rooted for the, "Weakest Link" that the rest of the fandom hated (kind of like if there were people here who kept talking about Elmo or Pepe)... that was the main issue, in addition to that, I was also, unfortunately, a lot more naive and "uneducated" back then on certain adult subjects, so that gave them something else for them to toy with me over. Finally, when they ended up finding out about me being a Christian, that was yet one more reason for them to all gang up on me over (apparently everyone at that forum was an atheist)... basically, they pretty much went out of their way to treat me like crap, and I made the mistake of trying to, "Take them on", so to speak, and fight back to defend myself. In the end, I was banned from the forum on the grounds that I was a trouble maker and was picking fights with everyone (in actuality, I wasn't the one picking the fights, they were... and believe it or not, a couple of years afterwards, apparently I came up in a discussion over there, and they admitted then that they intentionally were cyber-bullying me... and took pride in doing so too).

I hate seemingly like I keep "preaching" here, but one thing about Christianity is that once a person does accept Jesus and becomes a Christian, Satan considers that an act of war, so Satan pretty much will run amok, and when you least expect it, you're going to face some kind of persecution for your decision of accepting Jesus. Now, I'm not saying Satan is the reason Phil Robertson is under attack for voicing his opinion based on his faith, and I'm not exactly saying that Satan was also responsible for what I went through years ago, but once a person does become a Christian, that person becomes an enemy as far as Satan is concerned, and he does and will forward some form of persecution your way when you least expect it since he's basically, "At war" with you. So yeah, any kind of bigotry or prejudice against Christians do exist, it's just not made into some kind of big media frenzy like the bigotry or prejudice against homosexuals are.

You are right that real religious persecution exists in other countries.



People are mean to other people for a host of reasons and of course it isn't right, but the imagined persecution by the Christian majority in this country is as fictitiousas it is insulting to those who face the real thing in real life.

Again, Mr. Robertson was NOT suspended from his program because he professed his Christian faith. It was the callous nature, inexcusable language and hateful rhetoric that accompanied his paraphrasing of a Bible verse.

He should have left that part out - or maybe just said what Jesus did about gay people.

 

[Drtooth]

I get tired of hearing about "Christian persecution" especially considering that's the majority religion in America.

A-freakin'-men. Now, I'll deal with what D'Snowth is talking about, and I get the point he's making. But by and large the whole imaginary conspiracy theory that Christians are being persecuted for their beliefs, the "war on Christmas" and all that is a complete fabrication of Karl Rovian anger point politics. That's why far right blogs and Fox News tirelessly search obscure towns every Christmas for the slightest inkling of one town calling it a holiday tree or some nativity being taken down or something. To pretend that there's this big atheist conspiracy to create Sodom and Gomorrah so they can keep their massive amounts of power and scare everyone into voting for those who are far more amoral than they let on. Essentially, like mobsters that sell "insurance." "Pretty nice religion you got there... I'd hate ta see anyting happen ta it. Hey, is dat a atheist? Real shame if dey get dere way, huh?" Seriously... a LOT of Christians voted for Bush just because of the anti-gay sentiment and fear that Massachusetts legalized gay marriage (which I swear that Romney allowed. He was governor then, and could have vetoed it, but you know... Machiavellian schemes and whatnot. You do NOT know how glad I am that he isn't president now... he was awful).

Then you have these fundie religious leaders on TV whining about how the law of the land trumps the law of the Lord (even though, again, there's too much room for interpretation) and they feel like they're in Hitler's Germany because they only have power over their own sanctions of religion and not the entire country themselves. Yep. Apparently religious persecution has turned into no longer being able to persecute others for religious reasons. They're complaining about a weakening grasp of power and fear. Those who whine the most about Sharia Law in this country are those who would most enact it, but under the terms "restoring our values."

I hate seemingly like I keep "preaching" here, but one thing about Christianity is that once a person does accept Jesus and becomes a Christian, Satan considers that an act of war, so Satan pretty much will run amok, and when you least expect it, you're going to face some kind of persecution for your decision of accepting Jesus. Now, I'm not saying Satan is the reason Phil Robertson is under attack for voicing his opinion based on his faith, and I'm not exactly saying that Satan was also responsible for what I went through years ago, but once a person does become a Christian, that person becomes an enemy as far as Satan is concerned, and he does and will forward some form of persecution your way when you least expect it since he's basically, "At war" with you. So yeah, any kind of bigotry or prejudice against Christians do exist, it's just not made into some kind of big media frenzy like the bigotry or prejudice against homosexuals are.

Now, I'll agree to this as well. There is bullying and unacceptance of Christians as well. I don't tolerate that with any religion (..'cept for Scientology... they can handle themselves. They got enough lawyers). There are a small sect of atheists that are prone to passive aggressive bullying because religious extremists completely destroy the messages of their own religion.... and again, that has far more to do with politics and control than actual religion. To be fair, there are those who are rightfully offended by the extremists. Terrorists, the WBC, Televangelists that make Tweeg and Dishonest John look trustworthy. Religious extremism is politically motivated and spread through manipulative means to devout followers. The bible warns of false prophets, and we all know who they are. But religion is only the means to spread devastating messages. The fault lies with political leaders in the guise of religious ones. we're all looking at the wrong villains, we have a common enemy. Passive aggressive bullying, even if the heart is in the right place, isn't going to solve anything.

 

[jvcarroll]

A-freakin'-men. Now, I'll deal with what D'Snowth is talking about, and I get the point he's making. But by and large the whole imaginary conspiracy theory that Christians are being persecuted for their beliefs, the "war on Christmas" and all that is a complete fabrication of Karl Rovian anger point politics. That's why far right blogs and Fox News tirelessly search obscure towns every Christmas for the slightest inkling of one town calling it a holiday tree or some nativity being taken down or something. To pretend that there's this big atheist conspiracy to create Sodom and Gomorrah so they can keep their massive amounts of power and scare everyone into voting for those who are far more amoral than they let on. Essentially, like mobsters that sell "insurance." "Pretty nice religion you got there... I'd hate ta see anyting happen ta it. Hey, is dat a atheist? Real shame if dey get dere way, huh?" Seriously... a LOT of Christians voted for Bush just because of the anti-gay sentiment and fear that Massachusetts legalized gay marriage (which I swear that Romney allowed. He was governor then, and could have vetoed it, but you know... Machiavellian schemes and whatnot. You do NOT know how glad I am that he isn't president now... he was awful).

Then you have these fundie religious leaders on TV whining about how the law of the land trumps the law of the Lord (even though, again, there's too much room for interpretation) and they feel like they're in Hitler's Germany because they only have power over their own sanctions of religion and not the entire country themselves. Yep. Apparently religious persecution has turned into no longer being able to persecute others for religious reasons. They're complaining about a weakening grasp of power and fear. Those who whine the most about Sharia Law in this country are those who would most enact it, but under the terms "restoring our values."



Now, I'll agree to this as well. There is bullying and unacceptance of Christians as well. I don't tolerate that with any religion (..'cept for Scientology... they can handle themselves. They got enough lawyers). There are a small sect of atheists that are prone to passive aggressive bullying because religious extremists completely destroy the messages of their own religion.... and again, that has far more to do with politics and control than actual religion. To be fair, there are those who are rightfully offended by the extremists. Terrorists, the WBC, Televangelists that make Tweeg and Dishonest John look trustworthy. Religious extremism is politically motivated and spread through manipulative means to devout followers. The bible warns of false prophets, and we all know who they are. But religion is only the means to spread devastating messages. The fault lies with political leaders in the guise of religious ones. we're all looking at the wrong villains, we have a common enemy. Passive aggressive bullying, even if the heart is in the right place, isn't going to solve anything.

Ha! Just to let some of those Christian people out there know, most gay people I know like Christmastime. Not only would a lot of us approve of a manger scene somewhere, we'd go fabric shopping with you to find the right amount of "swaddle" for the baby. And don't get me started on Mary and the angels. I don't want to stereotype, but most of us really do love that pageantry!

 

[Drtooth]

Ha! Just to let some of those Christian people out there know, most gay people I know like Christmastime. Not only would a lot of us approve of a manger scene somewhere, we'd go fabric shopping with you to find the right amount of "swaddle" for the baby. And don't get me started on Mary and the angels. I don't want to stereotype, but most of us really do love that pageantry!

On the subject of the whole Happy Holidays/Merry Christmas thing... eh, it's all manipulative bunk spread by Yellow Journalism. The debate, to me, is one side that's right for the wrong reasons and wrong for the right reasons. Yet, I see other countries (Japan especially) celebrate the holiday secularly, so I don't see the whole offensive thing here.

Still, it's high up on the totem pole of persecution scare tactics from biased pseudo-journalistic sources. Personally, I want more outlets to actually say "Merry Christmas" because anything else is feeding the trolls.

 

[CensoredAlso]

While we're busy discussing a TV show, there has been persecution in this world very recently. And it was a little more serious than some GQ article or a network suspending someone...

Another Dark Christmas for Iraq's Christians
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/12/25/us-iraq-christmas-idUSBRE9BO06I20131225

"At least 34 people died in bomb attacks in Christian areas on Wednesday, some by a car bomb near a church after a Christmas service. A church attack in 2010 killed dozens."

Meanwhile the enlightened Americans are arguing about a reality show. Man, we are sheltered in this country...

 

[jvcarroll]

While we're busy discussing a TV show, there has been persecution in this world very recently. And it was a little more serious than some GQ article or a network suspending someone...

Another Dark Christmas for Iraq's Christians
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/12/25/us-iraq-christmas-idUSBRE9BO06I20131225



Meanwhile the enlightened Americans are arguing about a reality show. Man, we are sheltered in this country...

Christian persecution in the Middle East is rampant! And gays are tortured, murdered and jailed in Uganda, Russia and elsewhere every day. There's real oppression in the world. We could all be kinder to one another here and set a better example of civility. Angry rhetoric leads to hate and that leads to the kind of fundamentalism that kills.

 

[Drtooth]

Another Dark Christmas for Iraq's Christians
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/12/25/us-iraq-christmas-idUSBRE9BO06I20131225

Is exactly what TRUE persecution is. Not to mention how Islamic Militant groups (and the absolutely minus minded sympathetic poseurs that they create) fight and kill within their own religion. I can't believe people actually thought we'd all be safer with Saddam out of the way. All that did was create a nice little power vacuum for mealy mouthed cowards who were too wussy to overthrow Saddam themselves, but have no problem with targets that don't fight back. Terrorists are the perfect example of pick and choose hate religion. They completely ignore the "don't kill yourself and others" and love and peace message because they manage to rationalize their actions (politically motivated, mind you) by finding a tiny little footnote and some Harry Potter-esque fairy tale prophecy about wars with demons.