What is your least favorite Muppet Movie?

[Drtooth]

TM is mostly a rebranding piece for projects to come so I cut it some slack. For the most part, I loved the heck out of it and Walter too! Unfortunately Gary & Mary didn't really contribute much to the film. The script just neglects to make the most of their time on screen. They’re just kind of in the way. And who's idea was it to give Amy Adams a duet with Miss Piggy, but do it all in separate cutaways? It was a lost opportunity to get the Muppets into the human's dance numbers. Just weird. The Muppet Show and Muppet Theatre sequences at the end set everything right. It’s only fitting the next film will pick up where they left off - on a great Muppety moment!

Just my two cents. I cant wait for the next movie!

I'm actually mixed about the human interaction in TM. Seems like whatever else that would have built the characters better up was tossed along with all the cut scenes. I really think Disney lost a HUGE opportunity to release either a Donner cut or a special feature of all the deleted sequences into a separate mini-movie like they did with Anchorman the first time around. Gary and Mary were kinda just there, and Walter was the focus of the film until it was the Muppets' turn.

Then again, I look at these human adaptions (Chipmunks, Garfield, Yogi Bear), and the movies are almost exactly obsessed with the main human characters trying to get together in a relationship with the Mary Sue of the movie while the almost separated CGI characters basically hold up the rest of the film, just barely. Yogi was an egregious example of that. In fact, say what you will about the Smurf films, but the breath of fresh air was that the main human characters were already married. The Muppets knew well enough to push the humans off to the side as a B plot that only gets significant with "Man or Muppet." Again, my only issue is that they tried to fill so much into one 90 minute movie that it came off a little jumbled.

MCC has a beautiful spirit to it. The set design was gorgeous and the background Muppet cameos were fun to see. I'm sure Jim would have added his magic touch to make the thing absolutely spectacular. Instead, the film inherits a somber tone after the loss of two powerhouse performers and that seems like the right direction for the time period. I've had ideas of changing things about the film in past threads. In retrospect, I wouldn't change a thing. The film is a solid classic and it's what it needed to be.

I'd almost say the best way to improve the film would be to either remove the Muppets entirely and make it a Creature Shop Christmas Carol or to have put Scrooge in a world free from other humans where everyone else is a Muppet. I agree that the cloud of losing Jim and Richard casts a shadow in the film's direction. It is a wonderful Christmas film and a great Christmas Carol adaption, but the Muppets feel like the very same guest stars in their other movies. But that really couldn't have been helped. Meanwhile, I grow to appreciate the fact the Ghosts were original characters more every time I watch it. Jerry's Ghost of Christmas Present steals the show.

MWoO has so much potential and rich material to draw from. I think they probably should have cast a different lead and revised the entire script before shooting. Ashanti did most of the singing, until the Muppets chimed in and were promptly cut-off after a few notes. The Muppets in an Oz special that’s not carpeted with Muppety music? Someone was spending too much time in those poppy fields. Some of the CG is clunky and doesn’t seem to be finished baking, but the production design as a whole is attractive. I just wished the world had more of a density to it. I was expecting something more like Labyrinth. Something with creatures and strangeness filling up every corner. I love Piggy’s witch and her biker gang. The elements are there. It just plays out like a checklist of events rather than a compelling story.

I always bash the crap out of this movie, and if we can recall that glory period after VMX where they were sifting through all those old scripts there were better concepts. Not to mention, say what you will about MCC and MTI, Jerry Juhl's scripts at least packed in some sly humor. MoZ could have been far better than it was. Instead we get a rushed project with a poor actor as the star that wants to capture the lightning in a bottle of VMX by slavishly trying to copy the same edgy Simpsons/early Family Guy-esque humor that hamfistedly advertises American Idol (that's what Fox's credit in the film's production was...if it wasn't for the Disney buy out, it probably would have aired on Fox). The product does look good in spots, but those Batman '66 camera angles cause seasickness. Piggy should have been a better witch, but comes off pretty disturbing. It looks like she's making a snuff film instead of a reality show. And I reiterate... listen carefully to the lyrics of "The Witch is in the House." "Shiver Me Timbers" and the line "Dead men tell no tales" was far less violent.

I'd improve it in three simple steps.

1. Different human star that can act as well as sing. That was a choice of stunt casting.
2. Piggy as a villain can work, but there should have been moments where she broke character to keep apologizing to Kermie and references to her being "carried away." Seriously... she's almost Frieza levels of evil in that film. Not the passive aggressive evil of the Muppet Babies Snow White episode (or when she played the same role in the comics)
3. Less attention to being accurate to the book and more attention to being Muppety.

 

[jvcarroll]

I don't mean to sound the cold hearted executive but struggling TV shows are allowed a small window of time to get their act together. Many of them do. Heck the first season of Muppet Show was pretty rough before they finally found their groove. But if a show can't find a vision then the networks aren't going to waste precious time and money holding their hand. It would be ideal if all potential good ideas were given the time they needed to develop but that's not Television. It's a cutthroat business.

::shivers:: This concludes my temporary foray into TV Executive Land. You can't stay there too long without losing a bit of your humanity. Lol

MT's ratings were fair but ABC kept bumping it in and out of the schedule before it could catch on and many of the episodes didn't even hit the air until they were unceremoniously burned-off on the Disney Channel years later. Prince with the Muppets could have been a big hit! Too bad it was hidden from most people old enough to know who Prince is. Television programs used to be given a lot more time to build an audience. I beleieve Steve Whitmire made the same remark in an interview a while back. Most shows don't find a solid voice until season two. MT was given two half-seasons and not much of a chance. It's clear the cancellation occurred before they completed taping the remaining episode order. It's even used as a plot device.

 

[CensoredAlso]

I'm going to confess I didn't think MT was funny and I wasn't surprised when it didn't last long. I'm sure people watched it for awhile because they trusted the Muppet name. Jim Henson Hour had some funny and even touching moments but it reminds me of Labyrinth where you weren't sure what audience they were aiming for. It was too "kiddie" for grown ups and yet not funny enough for kids. The shining exception being The Secrets of the Muppets.

Sometimes you have situations like the original Star Trek where the networks are unfair to quality shows. But there are other times when a show is moved around a lot because it's just not delivering.

 

[Drtooth]

From what I understand, MT had decent enough ratings on Friday Nights, but not as good as Boy Meets World's ratings were, and they just about rushed the thing to Sunday Nights to die against 60 Minutes- the same timeslot that killed Pinky and the Brain in prime time. As I've said before, The Muppet Show thrived in syndication while MT and JHH failed. Clearly prime time network television just doesn't want to give them a chance.

Then again, MT was a show that the writers themselves confessed to not know what they were doing with the show until it got cancelled. When they started making the backstage plots more sitcomy, the show found its niche. Too bad it took them that long to get there. The last batch of episodes were the best in the series. If they had more bits like Beaker's Star Trek cruise, Kermit singing Talking Heads, and Seinfeld Babies and less everything they did with Andy and Randy, the show would have been much stronger.

 

[jvcarroll]

I'm going to confess I didn't think MT was funny and I wasn't surprised when it didn't last long. I'm sure people watched it for awhile because they trusted the Muppet name. Jim Henson Hour had some funny and even touching moments but it reminds me of Labyrinth where you weren't sure what audience they were aiming for. It was too "kiddie" for grown ups and yet not funny enough for kids. The shining exception being The Secrets of the Muppets.

Sometimes you have situations like the original Star Trek where the networks are unfair to quality shows. But there are other times when a show is moved around a lot because it's just not delivering.

I agree with your parallels between JHH and MT. The first season of the Muppet Show was scattered as well, but it was given a chance. I believe its success came from its international and syndicated status. They had more autonomy and weren't beholden to one team of network execs. I think that is becoming a trend these days. That's why the fate of NBC's Hannibal didn't rest with NBC. The independent team had already sold the international rights and there are plenty of channels on the dial, media content hubs and distribution sources around the world that would have taken it. Maybe that's what the Muppets need. ABC could produce the show, but they could shop it around the airing of it to non-affiliated networks. It's unlikely, but not unheard of.

 

[Drtooth]

Well, Hannibal also suffers from everyone's remake and sequel fatigue. But that's a different story.

The Muppets aren't going to have a big TV show comeback because of these networks. I could see something on The Hub probably sticking around. It's niche enough a channel. ABC Family is essentially what the CW was 5 years ago, and The Disney Channel is also a gamble as they still seem to be completely reliant on 10-12 year old girl programming. And networks would rather throw a crapload of money at a long term genre show that no one wants to watch because they know it's going to be cancelled (does anyone actually watch Hostages?). They really need to continue with viral videos and take the act to the internet.

As for shows that don't get enough gestation time to find their groove, well, that's their own fault. You wind up with something like Glee or Heroes that has a strong first season and just can't catch the lightning in a bottle that made them instant hits, and they tend to disappear fast. They want it both ways, and go nuts when they get neither.

 

[Dr TeethFan]

All those who hate The muppets 2011
This will probably change your opinion

 

[jvcarroll]

Well, Hannibal also suffers from everyone's remake and sequel fatigue. But that's a different story.

The Muppets aren't going to have a big TV show comeback because of these networks. I could see something on The Hub probably sticking around. It's niche enough a channel. ABC Family is essentially what the CW was 5 years ago, and The Disney Channel is also a gamble as they still seem to be completely reliant on 10-12 year old girl programming. And networks would rather throw a crapload of money at a long term genre show that no one wants to watch because they know it's going to be cancelled (does anyone actually watch Hostages?). They really need to continue with viral videos and take the act to the internet.

As for shows that don't get enough gestation time to find their groove, well, that's their own fault. You wind up with something like Glee or Heroes that has a strong first season and just can't catch the lightning in a bottle that made them instant hits, and they tend to disappear fast. They want it both ways, and go nuts when they get neither.

No, actually Hannibal pulled in decent number and has a second season order so there's none of that fatigue. I was using it as an example of the right way to produce modern entertainment.

There's a lot of potential for Muppets beyond just the usual tv and cable channels. There's Neftlix and Hulu and Amazon and so many other places that they could thrive.

By not giving a chance for a show to find its footing, you get the rather one-note shows like Glee and the usual procedurals. A good story needs a bit of cooking. Shows like the X-Files took a while to come into its own. These days it would likely have been canceled before it had the chance to get going.

 

[beatnikchick300]

All those who hate The muppets 2011
This will probably change your opinion

....nope. Changes nothing. Maybe the sequel will be an improvement, which isn't an unheard-of phenomenon (for instance, I agree with Doug "Nostalgia Critic" Walker that Shrek 2 is better than the first).

 

[Drtooth]

No, actually Hannibal pulled in decent number and has a second season order so there's none of that fatigue. I was using it as an example of the right way to produce modern entertainment.

And yet, they keep clinging to Parenthood when no one actually watches it. What a maudlin, terrible show. It's like a never upbeat, hour long version of Modern Family.

There really should be an online presence for The Muppets. I don't know how internet rights are different than home entertainment rights and what delicacy and subtly there are to those rules. But it seems that if they could stream The Muppet Show, they'd make the brand more accessible. A new series for the internet, even if they're just a series of shorts, would be the perfect home for a growing niche market. If the Muppets can't fit on regular network television, that's the next best thing.