What year did it all change for the worst?

[Oscarfan]

Have you seen the Spider-Monster bit or the The Voice bit? Those two reek of slapstick, but also of smarter, more subtle humor. The Coffee Plant bit with Grover and Mr. Johnson has one of the zaniest punchlines they've done in recent memory.

 

[mupcollector1]

Have you seen the Spider-Monster bit or the The Voice bit? Those two reek of slapstick, but also of smarter, more subtle humor. The Coffee Plant bit with Grover and Mr. Johnson has one of the zaniest punchlines they've done in recent memory.

I have definitely seen Spider Monster, that was really great. And quite topical too. lol
I might need to see The Voice parody again, I barely remember anything with that. The Coffee Plant one sounds really good, I'll check that out as well. I noticed in those new ones with Grover and Mr. Johnson, it's Frank and Jerry and not Eric and Jerry. But it's Matt Vogel performing Mr. Johnson to a pre recording that Jerry did right or is Jerry performing too? I got to check them out.

 

[CensoredAlso]

Even though the show has changed and perhaps classic fans like me don't really agree to that. I'm sure it's probably for the best because the priority of Sesame Street is to be an educational before entertainment.

I can't go along with the myth that the older episodes aren't educational anymore (i.e. that insulting Old School DVD disclaimer). It's nonsense. Sesame Street changed its style because Barney was beating it in merchandise back in the '90s. Period. It had nothing to do with education.

 

[D'Snowth]

In a sense, the Old School episodes AREN'T educational anymore.

Okay, not really, but when you compare the show of yesteryears compared to the show today, there's a BIG difference. Back then, the educational content really mainly covered the basics: letters, number, words, that sort of thing... the show today is so complex and advanced in teaching things like engineering, environment, and things like that, that showing Old School episodes to kids today would be like having high schoolers write a book report on a Dr. Seuss book.

 

[mupcollector1]

I can't go along with the myth that the older episodes aren't educational anymore (i.e. that insulting Old School DVD disclaimer). It's nonsense. Sesame Street changed its style because Barney was beating it in merchandise back in the '90s. Period. It had nothing to do with education.

There's a disclaimer on the Old School DVD box sets? Where's it at? I don't think I've seen the disclaimer. I would think the format style and target audience went to a more younger age due to educational research and stuff like that. Because they would need to present every new episode to it's target audience before they approve it for air. When did Barney get popular? I can't remember exactly what year to pin-point when the show changed. But I've seen a lot of stuff from 1992 that still looked pretty good and around the early 1990s. Like the Nirvana parody "Don't waste the water, turn it off.", There's a couple of really great Little Chrissy songs, Soundman at the China Shop (with Dave Golez as the China Shop owner), and one of my favorites The loud Airport / quiet Library sketch where Telly gets thrown out of the library because his connection with Debra at the airport lost connection. Then Kevin Clash performs this Roosevelt Franklin look-a-like upstaging Debra with a bunch of goofy faces running around the place as well as mentioning that he's reading Treasure Island. There's a good Spin-Doctor parody with The Count and Zoe while the parody Spin-Doctor Muppets in the background would start playing their guitars seriously and still and then there's this really cool thing where they are back to back bending down and coming back up. It's hard to describe but it's really neat collaboration.

So yeah, it's hard to pin-point. All I know was after the Tickle Me Elmo crazed happened, there has been more and more Elmo on Sesame Street. Watching Being Elmo, Elmo works very well as a cute sensitive character and an encouraging character for the younger viewers. Almost on the same lines as Big Bird. I remember hearing that Big Bird is 6 years old, Elmo is 3 and Abby Cadaby is 2??? Something like that. I think certain characters work well in certain aspects. Like how there's characters who are unaware of something and express that comedic, Ernie and Bert in a way is more of the social skills education but at the same time presenting it in a vaudeville sort of way. I've might have mentioned this before but what I disagree with in the current ones is how the irreverent, wacky, anarchic trademark Muppet style comedy isn't present in it's original style form. Today it seems a lot more gentle. What I liked about the comedy and rock music was that it entertained the parents to the point where they would be just as entertained as the children learning. That to me was what made Sesame Street work. The educational aspects of CTW and the humor and creativity of Jim and his Muppet crew, and the music talents of Christopher Cerf as well as Joe Raposo and Jeff Moss (that's his name right). Though I'm not sure what studies had to be done but I'm sure there probably had to be good reasons. I think it's a separation from the Great Entertainment we know and love. But if education comes first, it's hard to argue as it is the main priority. Still, I believe the entertainment of the show was a way for children to spend quality time with their parents. For example how can a parent watch episodes of the Teletubbies with their kids. Another aspect of Sesame that I loved was their non-patronizing approach in teaching. For example when Kermit did his lectures, he would talk to the audience as if they where adults that weren't aware of the subject matter. And I really liked that. I think there's this stereotypical belief that even some parents wouldn't trust that children are smart. But they are, they are just learning. But everybody never stops learning, and that aspect of treating children viewers with the same respect as an adult viewer I always found very magical on Sesame Street. Even the adult characters, Muppet characters and the kid characters are interacting on the same level and never talked down too. Though I'm not trying to compare this with current Sesame in anyway, just expressing my positive views as a fan.

 

[CensoredAlso]

the show today is so complex and advanced in teaching things like engineering, environment

Well the topics themselves may be complex but I question the execution of the current show. Just my opinion.

 

[CensoredAlso]

There's a disclaimer on the Old School DVD box sets? Where's it at?

The first two Old Schools DVD sets had the disclaimer "These early Sesame Street episodes are intended for grownups and may not suit the needs of today's preschool child." Thankfully they seemed to realize it was ridiculous (or at least that it was annoying fans, lol) so they removed it from the 3rd DVD set.

Though I'm not sure what studies had to be done but I'm sure there probably had to be good reasons. I think it's a separation from the Great Entertainment we know and love. But if education comes first, it's hard to argue as it is the main priority.

There we will have to agree to disagree. I do not believe it was purely for educational reasons, and I don't feel the show is more educational now.

I think the Street Gang book does cover when the changes took place and why, etc.

 

[mupcollector1]

be like having high schoolers write a book report on a Dr. Seuss book.

Still there are some really great philosophical messages as well as symbolizes of politics like the book with the birds with stars, the butter battle book, even the Lorax since Thermador Gisele did political satire before he did children's books.

I just wanted to note just in general, perhaps on the entertainment aspect. There's parodies of the current TV shows and Movies. But to me, it's much more then parodies. There was parodies in the classic ones but they were more goofier and wackier. Though I did like the Law of Order one where the Ging Ging noise was making the letter go crazy at the end. But yeah, there was more slapstick. The Muppet humor was a specific style. I always felt that it was inspired by the Pogo comic strips, Looney Tunes, and Stan Freberg. Jim was very influenced by the old fashioned slapstick, pun comedy and social satire in the day as well as applying jazz and rock music to his work. And it went into Sesame Street more and more by the mid 1970s. And I strongly feel that aspect has gone. Many would disagree, and I know I've been told to stop being a nostalgia hypocrite (or whatever negative untrue statement), Get on with the times, whatever. I grew up in the 1990s sure, but I'm old school with my tastes in entertainment. I must have been the only high school student that was obsessed with 1960s rock. But anyway, as much as I would love it to go back to how it was, the Sesame I love. Again if it's for the best in terms of education. Then no use of me arguing as long as Classic Sesame still continues in DVD releases, Netflix and iTunes downloads.

I think perhaps the classic episodes can't be used from what I've heard, current test audiences didn't react to it as well as it did back in the day. Today's culture wise, I have no idea. It was cool seeing them re-run on Noggin though, if they continued that, I would have got the channel in my cable deal. Which reminds me, Disney Channel NEEDS to rerun The Muppet Show! Perhaps little things like the bus stop or the subway. I think back in the day, kids were safe enough to take the bus and walk down town but perhaps today it's dangerous. I'd hate to go further into the politics of it all since I do have most respect for Sesame Workshop. But still, I prefer the Classic Sesame much better. Same with Classic Muppets and 90s Muppets. But that's just me.

 

[mupcollector1]

The first two Old Schools DVD sets had the disclaimer "These early Sesame Street episodes are intended for grownups and may not suit the needs of today's preschool child." Thankfully they seemed to realize it was ridiculous (or at least that it was annoying fans, lol) so they removed it from the 3rd DVD set.

Then again, simular warnings are on the DVD box sets of Classic Looney Tunes, Tex Avery, Tom and Jerry, and Popeye. I didn't see that warning on my Three Stooges DVD. Perhaps it's the stereotypical thought that some parent thinks that all puppetry and animation is for kids so perhaps it's a marketing cautious sort of thing. I personally think it's a good idea though. As long as the adult viewer can watch everything uncut.

There we will have to agree to disagree. I do not believe it was purely for educational reasons, and I don't feel the show is more educational now.

No Problem. Not that I firmly stand for my opinion, because I also agree with some of the aspects you were mentioning. And some are quite interesting and kind of makes me think so I appreciate your opinions as well. I'm quite open to opinions. Either I disagree or it gives me something to think about.

I think the Street Gang book does cover when the changes took place and why, etc.

I got to look that up sometime. I'd love to read that part. I got to go back to reading books in general, I'm always looking in the index when researching and reading bits and pieces. I got to remind myself that I own the book, the audiobook, and the kindle ebook. I just got to find time to read from chapter to chapter. However I did finish reading the Jim Henson chapters in Bernie Brillstein's book. Though I got to say, there was a lot of great stuff in Street Gang. It's funny because it really took a long time before detailed documents of the history of Jim Henson and The Muppets. There was Muppets and Men, The Works, and other then that for awhile, a lot of the biographies were simple and for school kids. Which of course wasn't a bad thing, that's how my childhood of studying Jim Henson began. I'm so excited about the upcoming Jim Henson biography this September. I heard it's going to be the best one yet.

 

[CensoredAlso]

Perhaps it's the stereotypical thought that some parent thinks that all puppetry and animation is for kids so perhaps it's a marketing cautious sort of thing.

Sure, that definitely could have played a part as well. And if so, just say that. The way they presented it I thought they overstepped their bounds. If parents wants their kids to enjoy and learn from the classic episodes that's their choice and they shouldn't be given this vague pseudo-psychology that they may not "suit the needs," which could mean anything and nothing, lol. It just needlessly put the classic episodes in a bad light.

No Problem. Not that I firmly stand for my opinion, because I also agree with some of the aspects you were mentioning. And some are quite interesting and kind of makes me think so I appreciate your opinions as well. I'm quite open to opinions. Either I disagree or it gives me something to think about.

Thanks, yeah I just tend to get a bit too passionate about this sometimes, lol.

I got to look that up sometime. I'd love to read that part. I got to go back to reading books in general, I'm always looking in the index when researching and reading bits and pieces.

I do the exact same thing, lol.