What year did it all change for the worst?

[mupcollector1]

Hello all..... I was wondering what year did Sesame Street change and they gave up over half of the show to Elmo?grouchy: ) I tried to watch it the other day and couldn't stand the thing. I grew up in the 70's when the show was still fun and funny at the same time. But when did it go down hill?

Well for me I think it started around 1994 in my opinion. I think the reason why the show changed was because so it would relate better to this generation of kids educational wise. Since the start of the series, before an episode airs it's usually shown to several test groups of kids and I think there's researchers watching carefully to make sure the education is getting across. One of the reasons why reruns aren't shown was because some reruns where shown to test audiences and the result wasn't the same from what I've heard. So basically I think the show is focusing more on the educational aspect more then before, tons of research goes into the show and as much as I totally agree with you on how The Muppet humor kind of lacks as well as a lot of the great rock music, the truth of the matter is...Sesame Street's main focus is to educate children. But yeah I agree and love Classic Sesame much better because there was a lot of great stuff that would entertain the parents at home. I don't know if certain things in terms of humor, music and parodies are being targeted for a more majority audience, I have no idea. But yeah I prefer the classic episodes because to me they were timeless and for general. This is just my opinions and view points, no offense to anyone here. I'm aware that there's fans that might disagree, but I feel we all have our opinions and I respect that.

 

[Drtooth]

Which were the timeless ones? The ones with the Disco Music, the ones with the psychedelic imagery, or the ones with Miami Vice and Hip to be Square parodies?

Timelessness was never Sesame Street's strong suit. There are some very timeless parts of Sesame Street, sure. You could show certain Muppet segments from the mid to late 70's, and you couldn't tell they were that old. Some of the stuff I found on the second Old School set I was shocked wasn't from the 80's. But then there are things that stick out like a real sore thumb. Grainy old films of kids wearing very 70's clothing, cultural references that don't translate to a newer generation, and very outdated tech. Some of the most dated things come from the 90's, when they had to reference computers. Those big chunky things with limited graphics are as goofy as those giant first cell phones.

I'll agree to this... Sesame Street is pretty much forcing dating itself on itself now with all these references to pop culture. And, oddly enough, they date themselves very very fast. They reran the High School Musical parody this year. Disney pretty much dumped that stuff years ago. The worst one? Joe Hundred Guy. They only used it once because the real show's shelf life expired with the hype the first season brought. They did a smart thing by banning the Jon and Kate segment. By the time that would have gone to air, no one would have cared. It's like Animation Lead Time, but without animation.

 

[CensoredAlso]

Timelessness was never Sesame Street's strong suit.

Definitely and that's always been true of the Muppets in general. They were very up to the minute regarding pop culture, the flip side of that being you will soon find yourself dated, lol.

Still, the Muppet humor that was rooted in Vaudeville was definitely timeless and I wish SS would go back in that direction.

 

[mupcollector1]

Still, the Muppet humor that was rooted in Vaudeville was definitely timeless and I wish SS would go back in that direction.

I totally agree 100%. I personally have always been old school when it comes to entertainment, I never was the person to follow the crowd, basically just liked what I liked. I felt The Muppets were part of the classic comedy slapstick genre like The Marx Brothers, Looney Tunes and The Three Stooges. And even though The Muppet Show got away with a little more then The Muppet did on Sesame Street. Even with Classic Sesame Street, it was a time where the parent would enjoy and be entertained by the show just as much as the child viewer being educated. I remember Jim once said "We're not particularly doing things for kids or for adults, we just want to do good entertainment." Today it's very seperated in terms of how Hollywood directs their audience. In the old days before the rating system, kids were allowed to go see Gangster James Cagney movies and when classic slapstick (which to me is true family entertainment) started. Today's movies family films, I don't agree with. I remember reading recently on how Jim felt very strongly about education in children's entertainment. Sesame Street was very unique at it's time. Be entertained as well as educated, and parents to spend fun time with their kids. I do agree that the current Sesame Street is very different in so many ways but I won't point out what I disagree with because I don't want to cause agrument and debate.

 

[CensoredAlso]

Today's movies family films, I don't agree with.

I know, most of them are pretty mindless. I know I might be a bit bias but kids films of 20 or 30 years ago did take more chances. That's just a fact. Then later I think in general parents got too paranoid and companies realized they could save money on creativity, lol.

Eventually there will be a backlash though, there always is, lol.

 

[Drtooth]

Definitely and that's always been true of the Muppets in general. They were very up to the minute regarding pop culture, the flip side of that being you will soon find yourself dated, lol.

People throw the word timeless around like it has an actual meaning. There is stuff that does actually live up to being timeless, but it's quite rare. 80's Cartoons betray themselves with synth pop soundtracks (specifically, anything by DIC)... Looney Tunes have some cartoons that work today without too much editing, but there's a lot of them that reference WW II rationing that even I didn't get as a kid. They can always edit out the acceptable at the time racial stereotypes, but when the references to war time culture are part of the plot, they're hard to follow without a history lesson. Not to mention the "Bath Night" bits. There's a difference between Bullwinkle ask you parents humor about literary puns, and ask your parents about what the heck are they saying. This does not detract from their overall entertainment value and their mark on history, but timeless doesn't apply to all of them. In fact, why do we want things to be timeless? Things are better when they reflect a period's beliefs and reference a period's pop culture. They serve as nostalgic reminders and history lessons.

I know, most of them are pretty mindless. I know I might be a bit bias but kids films of 20 or 30 years ago did take more chances. That's just a fact. Then later I think in general parents got too paranoid and companies realized they could save money on creativity, lol.

The problem isn't creativity. The problem is what sells selling. More of a pandering issue. There are 2 kinds of kid's movies... Pixar and Dreamworks can make some very powerful films. Up... How to Train Your Dragon? That's bold stuff for kids to watch. Wreck-it Ralph went over kids' heads and has more teenage and adult fans. Then there's the schizophrenic, hyper active, ADHD creating raucus family movies, mostly based on properties that alienate the fans of the original. Like the Smurfs and Chipmunks... mostly the Chipmunks who started this crap up again. Not to mention talking dog movies. Lord, I hate those things.

And then of course, there's Hugo. I've no doubt it's a beautiful, well done, lovely tribute of a film. But the subject matter is something that even Grandparents couldn't get behind. Only adult cinema snobs that actually get the references to someone that only they heave heard of. And this was supposed to be a kid's movie. A kid's movie based on someone only the most elitist of Cinema geeks have heard about. That's like making a kids movie about Frank Lloyd Wright. Architects will clamor over to see it, kids won't. That's being TOO risky if you ask me.

And also... Mac and Me. One of the worst films ever, created as a jaded attempt to copy E.T. and sell Cokes and McD's. From the 1980's.

 

[CensoredAlso]

In fact, why do we want things to be timeless? Things are better when they reflect a period's beliefs and reference a period's pop culture. They serve as nostalgic reminders and history lessons.

Oh I definitely agree with that, it's fascinating to see how a TV show or movie mirrors the period it came from.

And also... Mac and Me. One of the worst films ever, created as a jaded attempt to copy E.T. and sell Cokes and McD's. From the 1980's.

I'm embarrassed to say I liked that movie as a kid, lol. Yes, I remember the McD's scene. Hey, sometimes product placements help make a world more realistic! Lol

 

[Drtooth]

Oh I definitely agree with that, it's fascinating to see how a TV show or movie mirrors the period it came from.

There's such a thing as reference overload... but Sesame Street, much like SNL, The Simpsons, and South Park need to make as many references as possible. Sesame Street has always been conceived as a sketch comedy style show, and sketch comedies usually tend to reference things that are just happening. Then of course, there are the things that just sadly become dated as styles change. Unfortunately, a lot of this looks unintentionally funny. But these long runners have a tendency to keep up with the times, and some are more organic than others. Only thing betraying Sesame Street is, unlike South Park and SNL, these things don't air weekly and are written well in advance.

Hey, sometimes product placements help make a world more realistic! Lol

I used to hate product placement, and then I saw the bland name products. Those are much worse. Though, dancing with Ronald for an extended period of time is pretty overboard.

But my point is this... every year, there's bound to be one of three types of movies. The instant classic which goes without saying... something that's a hit already and will still be a huge staple for years to come, the movie that's completely under-appreciated, even bombed at the box office film that ages well and gets discovered on home video, and the lousy film that's either famous for being lousy or easily forgotten. We just tend to see and hear about more of the latter because it seems like there's more of them. But that's probably because we're really cranking out movies lately.

 

[CensoredAlso]

The only type of film that worries me are the pandering films that actually get popular.

 

[mupcollector1]

One thing that I notice about the Muppet humor on Sesame on the current one compared to Classic Sesame Street is the humor seems to be more gentler. I think some of the key elements of Muppet humor was irreverence, slapstick, surreal weirdness (monsters and explosions) and anarchy wildness. I can certainly see a lack of this and even with The Muppet Show Muppets currently. I see that it can be seen perhaps as old hat, but to me it's like taking the slapping away from The Three Stooges or the explosions and cartoon violence away from Looney Tunes. Call me old fashioned but I've always had a strong heart of this kind of comedy.
Applying to Sesame Street, a great example is the Alphabet Chat sketches. Or the sketch where The Count counts the honks from the Honkers and tries to honk his noses and unfortunately crushes it. It's like the formula was here the educational lesson mixed in with an entertaining set up and like most gags, there's a punchline. As for the parodies I see the problem more with today's pop culture, it's hard to parody to because it's so limited of what you can work off with. But it is set up in a similar fashion that Sesame did before from "Lifestyles of the Big and Very Very Little" to "Mad Men". But like I mentioned, it just seems to be more calm and gentle. I can understand perhaps it was changed for the best to help point out the educational material more clearer to the children viewers. But I noticed the calm and gentle pattern a lot in comedy in America in general, but I don't want to get into a rant about that and go off subject. Even though probably one of the biggest aspects of my love for The Muppets and Sesame Street was indeed the comedy and rock music. Even though the show has changed and perhaps classic fans like me don't really agree to that. I'm sure it's probably for the best because the priority of Sesame Street is to be an educational before entertainment. And if education had to have more spotlight then the entertainment, then that's got to be done. I've might have mentioned before but I'm very grateful that Sesame Workshop is releasing the classic episodes on iTunes, Netflix and DVD.