Why did Noggin cancel Unpaved?

[Mark The Shark]

Well, I do agree, it would be nice if we could keep these shows on the air, but unfortunately, that attempt is a *been there, done that*. Awhile back, when they WERE GOING to phase out "Unpaved" (they hadn't actually made the decision yet), I actually started an online petition, and the purpose of it was to revive Unpaved, but it obviously didn't work. And also, I have heard that NO company has EVER paid attention to an online petition. Is this correct?

I don't think a blanket generalization like the above can be considered to be either completely true or completely false 100 per cent of the time.

However, it is true that a bunch of names on a petition are not going to convince *any* corporate entity to do *anything* unless you "show them the money," that is, they have to have some sort of a "guarantee" that the profit they stand to make from something will justify the cost and effort of doing it in the first place. This is why Elmo took over "Sesame Street" after billions of "Tickle Me Elmos" were sold. The bottom line is "show me the money." I don't agree with it, but that's the way it is, and I don't make those decisions.

Anyway, I have actually spoken with Meeri Park, the director of programming for Noggin, and her reasons, or *their* reasons for phasing out Unpaved, and all those classic CTW shows was *because they have new shows.* I actually told her that wasn't fair, because all of us here on MC like it, and she said, "Okay, but that's a minority. See, you have to understand that we are now seen in 26 million homes, and the majority of our audience really likes the new Noggin." See, it wasn't just the programming they re-vamped, but the whole channel. See, the channel isn't just Noggin anymore. Noggin is only on during the day, from 6am to 6pm, and it's all preschool programming, that is, NEW preschool programming. And from 6pm on, it's something entirely different, called "The N", which has shows for older kids, and young teenagers. But Sesame Street Unpaved doesn't really go with either of those, and that's why they phased it out. But she told me that "It isn't really for anyone anymore. I mean, it WAS for preschoolers, what, 25 years ago." However, I was extremely upset when Noggin did away with Unpaved. In fact, I cried an awful lot.

That's sad. If that's how you felt, then that's how you felt, but I'd say you could have spent your energy a lot more productively if instead of crying, you got up, got dressed and went jogging or swimming or volunteering for some worthy cause or helping the homeless or...something. Or called up someone you love to tell them you love them. But that's just my opinion.

But I have thought that now that CTW no longer owns Noggin, I think that maybe there should be, like, a CTW channel.

Yeah, I agree with you, I'd like to see that. But "should" doesn't help anything. Though "should" is absolutely, completely and unequivocally 100 per cent subjective, I would imagine most people would agree with me that terrorists *should not* have attacked the World Trade Center, John Lennon *should not* have been assassinated by a mentally deranged fan, there *should* be world peace, snipers *should not* go driving around and shooting people at random, alcoholic drifters *should not* take their stepkids to baseball games and run out on the field with them to attack an umpire together, etc., etc. But in reality, we have to deal with what *is,* not what we think *should* be.

But I think that would make a great cable channel. But it's not up to me.

Also, sadly, I don't think the people at Noggin, or even Sesame Workshop, think that people care about that old material as much as we do. Because a lot of the stuff we're looking for is so rare, that nobody has ever heard of it, except us! So, I don't think we'll ever be seeing that stuff again, it's pretty much gone forever.

Well, the point is that the Noggin people probably don't *care* if people care about old "Sesame Street" shows. If something is going to generate some revenue or publicity for them, then they're all for it, like any business. And the shows are not "gone forever," or CTW/Sesame Workshop wouldn't be spending millions of dollars to preserve them. There is always the possibility that another cable network could pick them up or they could be released on DVD. Of course, for that to happen, licensing and royalties have to be paid, which can be very expensive, and the company has to *generate enough sales* from such a project to make it economically feasible.

Until then, bootlegs are our friends.

 

[BWSmith]

I was extremely upset when Noggin did away with Unpaved. In fact, I cried an awful lot.

That's sad. If that's how you felt, then that's how you felt, but I'd say you could have spent your energy a lot more productively if instead of crying, you got up, got dressed and went jogging or swimming or volunteering for some worthy cause or helping the homeless or...something. Or called up someone you love to tell them you love them. But that's just my opinion.

Ah, the eternal struggle between the "nostalgic enthusiast" and the self-proclaimed "realist", who tells him to "get a life"...

It's remarkable that one would ever find a realist "wasting his time" on an internet message board...

 

[Drtooth]

Ah, the eternal struggle between the "nostalgic enthusiast" and the self-proclaimed "realist", who tells him to "get a life"...

It's remarkable that one would ever find a realist "wasting his time" on an internet message board...

That's gratitude.... I give you info, and you dump all over me. Thanks a lot.

The "realism" is basically me just trying to explain things. I',m sorry if I get under everyone's skin, but I'm just trying to supply the facts to prevent confusion and multple threads on the same subject.

I'm saying that for once, this isn't SW's fault that they're alienating it's nostalgic fanbase. It was mainly a buyout type thing, and the d*** tweenage market which has consumed TV for this SS Unpaved misery....

 

[BWSmith]

Dr. T, I'm talking about the post above mine where Mark the Shark makes fun of Ssetta's disappointment in the cancelling of SSU, not your posts...

You must be the horse that orders "Three Coffees Please!" Lighten up!!

 

[Drtooth]

Oh... my mistake... Yeah./.. I gotta admit to you guy's... I've been a pain in the neck talking about SS lately... I'm in a groucy mood, and I have to animate all these finals before I gradute, and posting here is how I unwind before I set up another shot.

Yeah... personally, I feel like crying along with ssetta for the loss of SS Unpaved, in principle, anyway (I don't have cable, as I've said). I mean, I conceeded the newer SS to the younger generation, and I was hoping Unpaved would be on for a while so when I eventually get cable, I could tape a few. I really hope that with all the action figures and CD boxed sets they find the adult market and make some "Unpaved" style DVD's...

 

[Mark The Shark]

Dr. T, I'm talking about the post above mine where Mark the Shark makes fun of Ssetta's disappointment in the cancelling of SSU, not your posts...

Just to clarify, I wasn't "making fun" of anyone. Just trying to put things in perspective.

Believe me, when I was younger, I was practically *bolted down* in front of my parents' TV set in their living room. I hardly ever went outside and got involved in any activities, and had a very badly skewed view of the outside world. Television was *way* too important to me. So looking back on those years, I feel I cheated myself out of having a life. It got to the point where if someone invited me to go somewhere and it conflicted with one of my favorite shows, they'd practically have to drag me out of the house against my will. Probably, it had a lot to do with my situation at home, since my sister was sick a lot, I had hyperactive tendencies and my parents were extremely controlling and overprotective...possibly as a reaction to my sister's health problems (she's fine now, by the way) and my behavioral problems. So I pretty much immersed myself in the world of fictional entertainment...like I said, to the point where it became (I now feel) *too much* of an emphasis in my life.

So I can identify with people who are very, very passionate about the things they enjoyed in their youth, because I am too. But if I see someone starting to head down the dark path I myself traveled, I do feel compelled to at least try to help them put things into perspective and look at the "big picture" of life.

Because I've been there myself. And just my being here now is evidence enough of that.

"Brain candy" is fine in moderation, but we all should make sure we "brush our brains" afterwards.

 

[ssetta]

Thank you guys, so much for clearing things up about me.

Anyway, you are right, SS has always been a very big part of my life. It isn't just a hobby, it's an obsession for me. Here's a good way to put it: You know how Cookie Monster loves cookies, and how The Count loves to count things, and how Telly loves...well, he DID love triangles, but I do have some notion that he's now obsessed with letters. Wierd. But anyway, just as much as they all love their things, I love SS. See, I have something called Asperger's. What it is is, it's a lot like autism, but not as serious (though it used to be). So that's partially why I cried so much when SSU was cancelled.

I also got very upset when the local PBS station did away with the SS airing at 5pm back in 1999, in favor of Zoom. In fact, I didn't even sleep that night. I was only upset because before then, SS was ALWAYS on at least once in the afternoon here. I actually did go through a phase when I didn't really watch SS, mostly seasons 26 and 27. But from season 28 and up, I have seen just about every episode. In fact, I had a rule that I couldn't miss one. I would even watch it on Christmas, and on vacation.

In fact, one time, when we rented a rustic cottage on rural Cape Cod, Massachusetts, they had this dinky, little TV with no cable. It only got a couple of channels, and PBS was not one of them. I actually threw a temper tantrum because I wouldn't be able to watch SS for just a week. But my mom grew furious, or madder than she had ever been, and like she was about to call the whole vacation off, so that I could watch SS. Annoying, huh? But somehow, with some magic trick, I was able to pull it in. Now the reception on it was bad, but not unwatchable.

Anyway, my parents don't think it's harmful that I like SS at this age, although, believe it or not, there are some who do. In fact, my psychologist said that he didn't exactly think that it was appropriate for this age, either. Because I was getting in trouble with these girls I used to sit with at lunch. See, they were very pretty, and I would try to sit with them practically every day. And they didn't want me sitting with them anymore because all I ever did was bored them to death with SS stuff. But I had another school psychologist who actually said that if I have any obsessions, SS is a good one to have. In other words, SS is sort of like a blankie or a stuffed animal to me, and it always makes me feel better. I know that SSU isn't on Noggin anymore, but I have several tapes of it, and several shows that never were on Noggin, and I do watch those.

 

[mikealan]

Well, I do agree, it would be nice if we could keep these shows on the air, but unfortunately, that attempt is a *been there, done that*. Awhile back, when they WERE GOING to phase out "Unpaved" (they hadn't actually made the decision yet), I actually started an online petition, and the purpose of it was to revive Unpaved, but it obviously didn't work. And also, I have heard that NO company has EVER paid attention to an online petition. Is this correct?

Anyway, I have actually spoken with Meeri Park, the director of programming for Noggin, and her reasons, or *their* reasons for phasing out Unpaved, and all those classic CTW shows was *because they have new shows.* I actually told her that wasn't fair, because all of us here on MC like it, and she said, "Okay, but that's a minority. See, you have to understand that we are now seen in 26 million homes, and the majority of our audience really likes the new Noggin." See, it wasn't just the programming they re-vamped, but the whole channel. See, the channel isn't just Noggin anymore. Noggin is only on during the day, from 6am to 6pm, and it's all preschool programming, that is, NEW preschool programming. And from 6pm on, it's something entirely different, called "The N", which has shows for older kids, and young teenagers. But Sesame Street Unpaved doesn't really go with either of those, and that's why they phased it out. But she told me that "It isn't really for anyone anymore. I mean, it WAS for preschoolers, what, 25 years ago." However, I was extremely upset when Noggin did away with Unpaved. In fact, I cried an awful lot.

But I have thought that now that CTW no longer owns Noggin, I think that maybe there should be, like, a CTW channel. And they would have their own channel all to themselves, and it would have lots of old stuff on it, like SS, of course, and they could show some old, unedited shows that were never on Noggin, along with all the ones that were. Also, there could be a PBS Classic channel, which would have old reruns of SS, Mr. Rogers, Electric Company, Zoom, and many others. After all, PBS already does have a few cable channels of their own. In fact, they do have one called PBS Kids, which has NO SS AT ALL!! Can you believe it??

Also, sadly, I don't think the people at Noggin, or even Sesame Workshop, think that people care about that old material as much as we do. Because a lot of the stuff we're looking for is so rare, that nobody has ever heard of it, except us! So, I don't think we'll ever be seeing that stuff again, it's pretty much gone forever.

Yeah, I definately agree with you, ssetta,that Noggin destroyed the master copies of SSU, Electric Company, 3-2-1 Contact and Square One TV. Not only SSU, and those CTW shows were destroyed, The Muppet Show, Fraggle Rock, Muppet Babies, Muppets Tonight and Dinosaurs are destroyed too, because they're never showing our favorite shows anymore.

Last year, I sended the letter that had the channel idea, and they never replied! Too bad they're never creating a new channel that has our favorite shows anymore!

 

[ssetta]

Yeah, I definately agree with you, ssetta,that Noggin destroyed the master copies of SSU, Electric Company, 3-2-1 Contact and Square One TV. Not only SSU, and those CTW shows were destroyed, The Muppet Show, Fraggle Rock, Muppet Babies, Muppets Tonight and Dinosaurs are destroyed too, because they're never showing our favorite shows anymore.

Last year, I sended the letter that had the channel idea, and they never replied! Too bad they're never creating a new channel that has our favorite shows anymore!

Noggin didn't destory the copies, they're just not showing them anymore, because they don't have the rights to show them. I'm sure they still have them in their library.

 

[mikebennidict]

Well, I do agree, it would be nice if we could keep these shows on the air, but unfortunately, that attempt is a *been there, done that*. Awhile back, when they WERE GOING to phase out "Unpaved" (they hadn't actually made the decision yet), I actually started an online petition, and the purpose of it was to revive Unpaved, but it obviously didn't work. And also, I have heard that NO company has EVER paid attention to an online petition. Is this correct?

Anyway, I have actually spoken with Meeri Park, the director of programming for Noggin, and her reasons, or *their* reasons for phasing out Unpaved, and all those classic CTW shows was *because they have new shows.* I actually told her that wasn't fair, because all of us here on MC like it, and she said, "Okay, but that's a minority. See, you have to understand that we are now seen in 26 million homes, and the majority of our audience really likes the new Noggin." See, it wasn't just the programming they re-vamped, but the whole channel. See, the channel isn't just Noggin anymore. Noggin is only on during the day, from 6am to 6pm, and it's all preschool programming, that is, NEW preschool programming. And from 6pm on, it's something entirely different, called "The N", which has shows for older kids, and young teenagers. But Sesame Street Unpaved doesn't really go with either of those, and that's why they phased it out. But she told me that "It isn't really for anyone anymore. I mean, it WAS for preschoolers, what, 25 years ago." However, I was extremely upset when Noggin did away with Unpaved. In fact, I cried an awful lot.

But I have thought that now that CTW no longer owns Noggin, I think that maybe there should be, like, a CTW channel. And they would have their own channel all to themselves, and it would have lots of old stuff on it, like SS, of course, and they could show some old, unedited shows that were never on Noggin, along with all the ones that were. Also, there could be a PBS Classic channel, which would have old reruns of SS, Mr. Rogers, Electric Company, Zoom, and many others. After all, PBS already does have a few cable channels of their own. In fact, they do have one called PBS Kids, which has NO SS AT ALL! Can you believe it?

Also, sadly, I don't think the people at Noggin, or even Sesame Workshop, think that people care about that old material as much as we do. Because a lot of the stuff we're looking for is so rare, that nobody has ever heard of it, except us! So, I don't think we'll ever be seeing that stuff again, it's pretty much gone forever.

2 things i wanna ad. 1st, Ssetta mentioned that the ammount of people who watched the old CTW shows were in the miority. but what's also interesting is they claimed at the time he talked to them we are seen in 26million homes now witch would probably mean more cable & sattlite companies carry the channel. well a few years ago i was listening to a late night local talk show and the PBS kids shows were mentioned including the Noggin reruns and said that the channel wasn't seen on as many cable or sat. providers and i thought at the time when noggin would becaome more widely available, more people would get the chance to see the old shows. i guess it didn't help muchor not to their liking. > also i've been wondering for sometime now when they were planning to rerun the old CTW shows, i wonder if they had to possibly contact people who were on the old shows including current shows? of course SS is the only one of all 4 CTW shows that is still on. i ask this because i learned sometime ago people including myself writing to Zoom and on their website they will post people's emails up on the site and occasionaly they people ask about rerunning the original series. and they've claimed they do not have the right to air the original series due to some agreements they made with the 70s zoomers. they've never explained what the deal was. now i've heard about creators often having to pay royalties to actors and actress' to star on shows i don't understand the whole point of paying them each time a show is broadcast especially if the show is long out of production and just in reruns. those acors & actress'es have a lot of money in the bank as it is. I don't know if that's the case with the original Zoom shows or something else. it certainly didn't stop them from making a Zoom beast of the 70s video and even this season they're occainally showing clips from the 70s Zoom. it's certainly not good enough as far as i'm concerned the whole episodes should be shown if not on a daily baisis ceratinly every once in a while.