Why did Noggin cancel Unpaved?

BWSmith

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I don't understand why Noggin phased out Sesame Street Unpaved broadcasts.

I could care less how they alter the modern-day show as long as somebody continues to pay homage to the show of the same name in the 70s and 80s with the different format.

In an age where there are cable channels coming out the wazoo, we have immense access to just about every classic television show ever produced through channels like TV Land. How much can it possibly cost to slap an "Unpaved" introduction onto a classic SS episode?

And why is it that Noggin's preschool programming shuts down after dinnertime? (PBS Kids is the only network with preschool shows 24 hours.) Who watches the non-preschool stuff (the teen time block known as "The N")? Do "Daria" and "Degrassi" really draw a better 2-4am audience than SS reruns?
 

dvakman

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I'm concerned about this. I wonder if the Sesame Workshop people considered the Unpaved run to be a success or a failure. When Noggin first launched, I believe that the Unpaved series was one of its selling points. When it was ultimately cancelled, the Noggin execs (not the Sesame Workshop execs, mind you) reportedly told some fans that it was cancelled because old children's shows have no audience. Now, we know that can't be true when there are channels like Boomerang that cater to adults who love to watch the old cartoons from their youth. However, these are cartoons, not educational programs. Is there another home for an Unpaved-type series on television? If so, what would it be? The recent musical boxed set gives me the hope that maybe they're starting to think beyond just the current generation of kids and DVDs with classic clips are a possibility. I want to be hopeful, but am concerned about the impact of SW's experience with Noggin.
 

Drtooth

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We really need an FAQ in here....

Noggin was a joint venture between Sesame Workshop and Viacom. when it first started up, it had lots of classic CTW tv shows, including 2 seperate SS shows (Unpaved and Sesame too), Square one Mathmatics, and Electric company. Viacom bought out SW's share, and quickly phased out most of the CTW shows in favor of 90's Nickelodian shows, and "original" programming like Access Hollywood Kids.

As for the preschool shows, the SS episodes were phased out for more of that Nick Jr. Crap.

So, you see it was all Viacom's decision, taking advantage of SW's aling budget....
 

BWSmith

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Thanks, DT!

All the more reason to really loathe Viacom.

Seems like every time I hear that corporate name, it's in connection with a negative context; either they're underwriting more garbage from MTV or blacking out their channels on Dish Network or something like this.
 

Mark The Shark

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I'll try to be the calm voice of reason here, for all the good (none) it will do...

BWSmith said:
I don't understand why Noggin phased out Sesame Street Unpaved broadcasts.
Partly, it had to do with what Dr. Tooth said, that is, Noggin was created as a joint venture between CTW (when it was still called CTW) and Nickelodeon, but last year, Nick bought CTW (now called Sesame Workshop) out. That still doesn't have a whole lot to do with "Unpaved" and the other vintage "retro" CTW shows being phased out, since Noggin still has contracts with other parts of the CTW holdings, and still retains the rights to those shows through the end of those contracts. I'm not knowledgeable about the specifics of what they do and don't still have under license, but it isn't important. But as dvakman said,

dvakman said:
I'm concerned about this. I wonder if the Sesame Workshop people considered the Unpaved run to be a success or a failure. When Noggin was first launched, I believe that the Unpaved series was one of its selling points.
What do the execs think? Who knows? In my lifetime, I have learned this: when a TV station, cable network, heck, *any* corporate entity, makes any kind of decision, no matter how brilliant or stupid, or whether you or I agree or disagree with it, one thing is certain: If they are asked, they will have no problem completely justifying their decision (if only in their own minds) using all kinds of facts, figures, statistics, "bottom line," "studies," etc. And there are people who earn their livings by manipulating facts and figures to justify corporate decisions. And yes, "Unpaved," "The Electric Company" and other vintage CTW shows were touted as a selling point for the network. But that is how upstart cable channels usually get established: they start out with programming that's usually old, and also happens to be inexpensive (in this case, very inexpensive, since CTW owns the shows and CTW was part owner of the network) and here we go with that "spin" again: you bet they were promoting it to launch their network. There most certainly *is* an audience for these shows, and at that time (1998) that audience was much more rabid for these shows than now, since at that time, this material *had not been seen in decades.* But as dvakman also pointed out:

dvakman said:
When it was ultimately cancelled, the Noggin execs (not the Sesame Workshop execs, mind you) reportedly told some fans that it was cancelled because old children's shows have no audience. Now, we know that can't be true when there are channels like Boomerang that cater to adults who love to watch the old cartoons from their youth.
All true enough, but this brings us back to my original point: Yes, there are hundreds, maybe thousands of people who have a passion for these shows and do want to see them (some more passionately than others). But ultimately, in the grand scheme of things, the revenue these old shows generate is not equal to what contemporary programs can bring. Part of this, of course, is because all the aforementioned "experts" sink all their promotional money into pushing their new products, and there is a mindset or "general wisdom" (that is, one of those things "everyone knows," such as the "fact" that no one will watch black and white movies) that these shows are not profitable and won't succeed. That sort of creates a "self-fulfilling prophecy," because they'll put it out there, pay very little attention to it, won't do much to promote it, and then when it eventually doesn't get watched, then they can say "See? We told you no one is interested in this old junk." But look at Boomerang. Boomerang is a spinoff of Cartoon Network, which was founded in the early 1990s after Turner Entertainment bought out Hanna-Barbera, creating a massive cartoon library when combined with those of MGM and the early pre-1948 Warner Brothers library (and when Warner Brothers bought out Turner in the late 1990s, the library got even bigger). But eventually, the classic cartoons which were the bread and butter of Cartoon Network got shoved off that channel as Cartoon Network got more established, got more money and started producing *new shows.* So it all moved over to Boomerang (a channel I still can't even get) and not only that, the older cartoons have even been "ghetto-ized" on that channel, so Hanna-Barbera cartoons of the 1970s and 1980s can be emphasized. See, "everyone knows" that no one remembers or would be interested in shows older than that. It's an unforttunate "Catch 22," but it didn't help that Noggin only ever showed 67 "Unpaved" episodes and 65 "Electric Company" episodes, so the people in this "niche market" who did want to see them saw them...over and over. Once they'd seen them and taped them (myself included), then there was no need to keep watching them and re-watching them. So there's another self-fulfilling prophecy.

What we fans can do is to try and support whatever vintage stuff *is* out there. Let them know you want more of whatever it is you want by consuming what's out there.
 

BWSmith

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Great post, Mark! That just about says it all.

So the obvious question is, is this a cyclical thing?

In 10 years, will Viacom eventually buy out the rest of SW's share of Noggin, causing SW to form the "Sesame Network" or something similar that pushes limited-time vintage programming as its selling point?

Or will the changing face of the home video market make DVD collections of vintage SS more profitable than broadcast?
 

ssetta

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Well, I do agree, it would be nice if we could keep these shows on the air, but unfortunately, that attempt is a *been there, done that*. Awhile back, when they WERE GOING to phase out "Unpaved" (they hadn't actually made the decision yet), I actually started an online petition, and the purpose of it was to revive Unpaved, but it obviously didn't work. And also, I have heard that NO company has EVER paid attention to an online petition. Is this correct?

Anyway, I have actually spoken with Meeri Park, the director of programming for Noggin, and her reasons, or *their* reasons for phasing out Unpaved, and all those classic CTW shows was *because they have new shows.* I actually told her that wasn't fair, because all of us here on MC like it, and she said, "Okay, but that's a minority. See, you have to understand that we are now seen in 26 million homes, and the majority of our audience really likes the new Noggin." See, it wasn't just the programming they re-vamped, but the whole channel. See, the channel isn't just Noggin anymore. Noggin is only on during the day, from 6am to 6pm, and it's all preschool programming, that is, NEW preschool programming. And from 6pm on, it's something entirely different, called "The N", which has shows for older kids, and young teenagers. But Sesame Street Unpaved doesn't really go with either of those, and that's why they phased it out. But she told me that "It isn't really for anyone anymore. I mean, it WAS for preschoolers, what, 25 years ago." However, I was extremely upset when Noggin did away with Unpaved. In fact, I cried an awful lot.

But I have thought that now that CTW no longer owns Noggin, I think that maybe there should be, like, a CTW channel. And they would have their own channel all to themselves, and it would have lots of old stuff on it, like SS, of course, and they could show some old, unedited shows that were never on Noggin, along with all the ones that were. Also, there could be a PBS Classic channel, which would have old reruns of SS, Mr. Rogers, Electric Company, Zoom, and many others. After all, PBS already does have a few cable channels of their own. In fact, they do have one called PBS Kids, which has NO SS AT ALL!! Can you believe it??

Also, sadly, I don't think the people at Noggin, or even Sesame Workshop, think that people care about that old material as much as we do. Because a lot of the stuff we're looking for is so rare, that nobody has ever heard of it, except us! So, I don't think we'll ever be seeing that stuff again, it's pretty much gone forever.
 

Drtooth

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I think ssetta summed it up best. They can show Unpaved and Squareone... but they don';t want to, because they want to have "new" programming. I mean, not even having it on at 4am WHEN NO ONE WATCHES TV anyway. Everyone has callously sold out to the "tweenage" demographic. Look at the Disney channel for example... it's 24/7 tween sitcoms and cartoons about tweens.

Personally, I could care less, since I don't have cable (but this galvanized my desicion....), but, as I've said in the 35 in a different light thread, SS's current shows are geared to the pre-preschool set, but I feel their should be a fan alternative. I mean, we do have some nice stuff on DVD, (like Pinball number count, and Captain Vegatable on the 35th anniversary disk), but they really need to do something for the fans. Unpaved was for us fans, but Viacom gives a rat's fez about nostalgic or collector's stuff (with the exception of the New ren and Stimpy Merchandising....), they just want profit. Though I still don't get how ratings are important, since it's an obscure cable channel anyway, but apparently they actually care.

You know, I had a chance to see Unpaved one time. I was house sitting for an Aunt and she had digital cable... I found out it was on, but at night... I tried to stay awake for it, but I fell asleep before it came on.
 

Don_Music_2004

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I guess we should be thankful that many people from here have all the Unpaveds on tape, or at least most of them, and we can trade or buy them on here.
 

Censored

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Noggin never gave Sesame Street Unpaved a chance. Showing the same handful of episodes over and over again is the surest way to doom any program.
 
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