Save the Muppets

[GelflingWaldo]

And while we're at it, let's get a petition going to force Frank Oz back to the Muppets!

The campaign is not against changing performers – that is inevitable and required for the Muppets to survive. People like Steve (Kermit) and Eric (Fozzie/Piggy) have been excellent at keeping the Muppets alive and of high-quality. The campaign is against multiple simultaneous performers and irresponsible convenience-based mass recasting. The proper recasts are great (and I encourge them), but what is going on here is not proper and will (and is already starting to) killing the Muppets.

 

[rumtar_10165]

Wait wait Dave Golze and Steve Whitmire Fired????

 

[OverUnderAround]

Wait wait Dave Golze and Steve Whitmire Fired????

Nope, they just aren't doing Statler and Waldorf (for now) on movies.com. They are still Muppeteers. Two other fellows, Victor Yerrid and Drew Massey have been performing Statler and Waldorf the last few weeks on that website.

 

[MWoO]

Franlly when it comes to Statler and Waldorf I AM in favor of some recastng. I am NOT in favor of recasting the core group like KErmit and Fozzie and I am NOT in favor of multiple performers at one time. So there are really 3 issues here and it seems a few people are only looking at one. I must admit that how ever did Sam's voice was pretty good. Same with Animal. Maybe they cloned Frank's vocal chords...hmm...

While I do not want the performers to lose their jobs, I do want the characters to have more accurate voices and personalties. So I say let Disney recast some of the characters that never got a solid replacement (like basically the entire EM) and let disney recast some of the charactyers that were off with other performers (like Waldorf has been for the past 15 years), At the very least it lets Steve and Dave forcus on their original characters during a production.

 

[Beauregard]

There's also a danger in being to passive.

If the Muppeteers truly felt that their jobs were at risk...then they themselves have to take action. (Not us fans.) If they felt their jobs were at risk, have all of them get together (there's strength in numbers) and have a press conference and embarrass Disney publicly. The message would be broadcast around the world and all the fans would unite behind them.

Yet Kynan, we haven't heard this complaint from anyone but you as the source. The Muppeteers have to speak up for themselves and take a stand publicly for this topic to be believed and taken seriously.

Depending on the fan-base to save them while they keep their mouth shut is not logical. Heck it's almost insulting to fight for someone else's cause when they do nothing publicly about it themselves!

I think it was Winston Churchill who is quoted as saying; "Bad things happen when good people do nothing." Well these good Muppeteers better stand up and start talking publicly for this issue to be taken seriously.

But we don't hear the Muppeteers complaining at all.

I am going to finally take a side in this and say, Hear, hear. I agree. If the Muppeteers are not happy, then I would feel they would have let us know by now.

However, us argueing about it isn't going to help either way. Me, OverUnderAround, etc, arn't against the petition. We just arn't for it. Others are for it. We're not trying to stop them, just, can those who want the petition not try to force it on those who do? That won't change anything.

I mean, by this time, we've heard all the arguments for and against and made our choice. And you have done the same. Ultimatly, that's what matters.

 

[Was Once Ernie]

If the Muppeteers truly felt that their jobs were at risk...then they themselves have to take action. (Not us fans.)

[SNIP!]

Yet Kynan, we haven't heard this complaint from anyone but you as the source. The Muppeteers have to speak up for themselves and take a stand publicly for this topic to be believed and taken seriously.

Once again, I promised myself I was going to keep out of this, but here I go breaking my promise.

The other thing we haven't heard from any source but Kynan is that they are doing this to find cheaper talent. No one at Disney, or for that matter Henson (Martin Baker, Kevin Clash, etc.), has ever brought up the topic of money. You all are just assuming that. And you know what happens when you assume... you make an a*s out of Uma Thurman.

But the bigger problem that no one has addressed is, it doesn't matter one whit about the performers if they don't get decent writers. The success of the Muppets has always been about the writing. Yes, you need the performers to bring the words to life, but without those words, you have nothing. Everything the Muppets do, except for a few off the cuff interviews, is scripted. And if the script is lame, the Muppets, no matter who is performing them, will be lame.

So, you can save the performers all you want (which is what you really mean by "Save the Muppets" or One character, One voice), but if they don't find better writers soon, there won't be any performers to save.

 

[GelflingWaldo]

If they felt their jobs were at risk, have all of them get together (there's strength in numbers) and have a press conference and embarrass Disney publicly. The message would be broadcast around the world and all the fans would unite behind them.

If they did that then they really would never get a job with the Muppets. And Kermit would never be in the hands of Steve again. Doing something like that is very unprofessional and is not generally excepted in Hollywood (or the business world), it’s the kind of thing that will get you fired. The Muppeteers aren’t going to be fired or out of work due to the plans Disney has, they will still work, and more work will be created for “fake Muppets” (and “fake Muppets” are bad). Steve will still have a job, playing Kermit (but so will 5 other people). If the Muppeteers make a huge stink about this now, Disney will just cast them aside and replace them completely with new performers and that would make things even worse (plus other people won’t hire them it they are known “trouble makers”, plus it makes them look unprofessional). Disney is not looking at firing Steve from playing Kermit, they are looking at hiring other people to play Kermit too – multiple Kermits, The Muppeteers themselves may not think this is the best thing, they may agree with the SaveTheMuppets campaign but I would not expect them to be the ones leading a big public war on Disney. There are a lot of politics at play here, and the Muppeteers do have to eat and making a living. I would not expect them to get involved in this type of thing.

 

[Kynan Barker]

The other thing we haven't heard from any source but Kynan is that they are doing this to find cheaper talent.

I'm sorry, you think Disney's looking to hire performers who are less experienced but MORE expensive?

Kynan
savethemuppets.com

 

[Beauregard]

But the bigger problem that no one has addressed is, it doesn't matter one whit about the performers if they don't get decent writers. The success of the Muppets has always been about the writing. Yes, you need the performers to bring the words to life, but without those words, you have nothing. Everything the Muppets do, except for a few off the cuff interviews, is scripted. And if the script is lame, the Muppets, no matter who is performing them, will be lame.

So, you can save the performers all you want (which is what you really mean by "Save the Muppets" or One character, One voice), but if they don't find better writers soon, there won't be any performers to save.

Perfectly put. Kermit's Swamp Years had the right performers. And it crashed and burned.

Character strength comes from the performers, yes, but more so from the writing.

 

[Kynan Barker]

If the Muppeteers truly felt that their jobs were at risk...then they themselves have to take action.

That's so wrong-headed it's offensive. You're making a massive leap in logic here, and accusing people you don't even know of being too lazy to save their own jobs. Let me give you a little scenario here, just one of many possible ways this could have been played out...

DISNEY: "We want to hire multiple Muppeteers."

MUPPETEERS: "We think that's a bad idea, for a whole bunch of reasons."

DISNEY: "Well, we've listened to your reasons, and we're going to do it anyway. In fact, we've already started auditioning for people to do your jobs."

MUPPETEERS: "Oh, yeah? Well, we're not going to stand for that. We're going to the press, we're going to the fans, and we're going to shame you and publicly hold you hostage until we get our way. What do you say to THAT?"

DISNEY: "We say, it looks like Drew and Victor will be coming in early today. Close the door on your way out."

I really wish more people would support this campaign on principle, because the idea of multiple Muppets really is abhorrent. But if you can't get behind that, at least take a second to fully consider the implications before you go shooting your mouth off about the jobs and lives of the Muppet performers.

There's always something bigger at stake.

Kynan
savethemuppets.com