Muppet Listing Question/Inclusion

[The Count]

Greetings from the Count! By now, you guys know of my pet project of the Muppet Listings, which keeps growing thanks to replies by all of you forum members who contribute with a new name or two. Got a question for you to debate its merits which might change the entire nature of the listings.

When I started the listing and posting here a year ago, the list was only a meager 290 characters long and was made to list the characters from what I personally consider the main three branches of the Muppet Universe: Sesame Street, The Muppet Show, and Fraggle Rock. After research and valueable modifications from all of you, I decided that Muppets Tonight and the Jim Henson Hour characters should be included because these two shows could be considered as offshoots of the original Muppet Show itself. And of course, it follows that characters from SS and TMS movies and specials like the Muppet Movie, Follow That Bird!, Muppet Family Christmas and alike should also be included. Well, what I'm getting at is, what do you consider a Muppet and rightful of being included in the listings to make it truly complete? Would you consider shows like Bear in the Big Blue House and Moopatops worthy of being included in this listing? Or would you prefer only to see characters from the Secret Life of Toys and Mother Goose Stories added while excluding the rest? Let me know what you guys consider as deserving of being counted towards the Muppet Universe's completion to keep polishing my listings, a list of the characters from that production that you believe should be included, descriptions so that I know who's who, and an argument as to why the production(s) you nominated should be considered towards the listing. The reason I ask for your thoughts on this is cause I keep getting inspired by my grand-uncle and I know that at some point I'll have to actually travel to the locations and do physical research on completing my master dream. In those hopes, my wishes are to know why should other Henson productions that most wouldn't think as being Muppets should be included in such a project as the one I've worked heart and soul on for the last year. Well, I hope this has been explained clear enough to get some replies and that you all have a Muppety day.

 

[MuppetDude]

I'd include the Muppets from "Bear" (they're definitely Muppets; they have a very "Muppety Look" to them and are constructed (and move) a lot like the other Muppets in your list), "Mopatop", "Secret Life" (I've never seen the last two, but from the pictures they look like Muppets), and "Mother Goose" ("Jim Henson: The Works" labels the puppets as Muppets, though I'm not sure), as well as "Sam and Friends", commercials, and any other productions.

Here's a list of Muppets from "Bear In the Big Blue House":

-Bear (big and orange, with small black eyes, fuzzy eyebrows, and a blue nose; moves like Big Bird)
-Ojo (a bear cub; looks like an orange, blue-nosed teddy bear)
-Tutter (a blue mouse with a semi-long snout and pink nose)
-Pip (purple otter)
-Pop (purple otter)
-Treelo (a green lemur with a blue-and-white striped fuzzy tail, blue ears, a red nose, and white fur around his mouth and stomach)
-Shadow (a shadow that looks like a little girl with a pigtail and wearing a skirt)
-Luna (the moon with big eyes, a nose, and a mouth)
-Ray (the sun; similar to Luna)
-Doc Hogg (a large fuzzy pig; has semi-spherical plastic white eyes with eyelids {his bottom ones move to make it look like he squints}), and round bifocals at the end of his nose)
-Harry (a yellow duck with dark speckles on him, and has a very flexible turquoise beak)
-Annette the Armadillo (owner of the movie theater; basically an armadillo puppet with semi-spherical white plastic eyes)
-Edna and Otto (Pip and Pop's grandparents; Edna has gray (?) curly hair, bifocals, a necklace (?), and a straw hat with flowers. Otto has a bow tie, lavendar short hair (with sideburns) and moustache, and a straw "Vaudevillian-type" hat)
-Jeremiah Tortoise (works at the post office and general store; a realistic tortoise puppet with white thinning hair and a small "goatee-like" white beard)
-Grandma Flutter (looks like Tutter but has grey hair and a shawl on her shoulders)
-Jack (?) the Firedog (a dalmation with small black eyes, a big snout, and is dressed as a fireman)
-Lois (a blue-footed booby {a type of bird})
-Mrs. Maxwell (Tutter's teacher; looks like Tutter with a red sportssuit, brown curly hair, and bifocals)

Hope this helps!

 

[Luke]

Count,

Basically, officially, any puppet made by the Henson Puppetry workshop and used in a Henson production is called a 'Jim Henson Muppet'. I don't really think there is any argument from saying certain shows are or are not worthy to be included because that's kinda how it is and always has been. Obviously though, it is your listing and upto you what you include and do not include.

There is a problem with doing Moppatop. No listing of the shows exist online and there were so many episodes made i doubt anybody has all of them on tape. Also, that show had a special guest Muppet cameo each week who came to the shop as a customer. The problem is that these Muppets were ones used in past Muppet or Fraggle productions but given an entirely new name, personality and voice so basically background Muppets that are in your listing became entirely different Muppets in that show even though they looked just the same. I'm not sure how you would include that and you'd need to speak to the producers probably to find out if they have an episode and cast guide.

The Hoobs are as follows :-

"Groove" :- Male Hoob, Lives In Hoobmobile. Green Body, Red Nose, Mop Of Mid-Length Green Hair On Head.
"Iver" :- Male Hoob, Lives In Hoobmobile. Purple Body, Green Nose, Mop Of Short Green Hair On Head.
"Tula" :-Female Hoob, Lives In Hoobmobile. Pink Body, Green Nose and Ears, Tuft Of Green Hair on Head.
"Hubba Hubba" :- Male Hoob, Lives Back On Hoobland, Blue Body, Red Nose, Long Blue Ears, Tuft Of Blue Hair On Head.
"Roma" :-Female Reporter Hoob, Lives On The Road, Orange Body, Pink Nose, Short Tuft Of Pink Hair, Pink Ears, Hair Tied With Gold Band.
"Twang" :- Male Motorette, Singing Cymbal, Lives In Hoobmobile Engine, Red Body, Spring On Head.
"Timp" :- Female Motorette, Singing Cymbal, Lives In Hoobmobile Engine, Orange Body, Bell On Head.
"Tootle" :- Male Motorette, Singing Cymbal, Lives In Hoobmobile Engine, Blue Body, Horn On Head.

 

[The Count]

OK, thanks for the replies, I'll take everything into consideration. Guess I should've made myself more specific.

Would you classify the characters in the following shows as definite Muppets which should be counted amongst a listing of all Muppet Universe characters.
1 Bear in the Big Blue House.
2 The Hoobs.
3 The Woobuous World of Dr. Seuss.
4 Mother Goose Stories.
5 The Secret Life of Toys, a series based on the Christmas special The Christmas Toy where Kermit appeared briefly.
5 Emmet Otter's Jugband Christmas.
67 Sam & Friends.
8 Dinosaurs.
9 The Dark Crystal.
10 Labyrinth.
11 The Witches.
12 Farscape.
Please let me know what your thoughts and/or arguments in favor of including these by posting the respective replies in this thread.
Thanks for your help and have a good day.

 

[The Count]

Oh, Luke, you say that many of the background characters from my listing appeared on Moppatops? Well, if they were given a new name different from the one said character originally appeared as on its original Henson production, and if they had a completely different personality or character background to them other than the one displayed on its original Henson production, then my logic tells me that these would be completely different characters from the ones originally seen and would partially merit inclusion should Moppatops be included in the listings.
Any help on this subject will be greatly appreciated, and I hope you have a good night.

 

[Sidebottom]

Would you classify the characters in the following shows as definite Muppets which should be counted amongst a listing of all Muppet Universe characters.

It's your list, man -- it's up to you!

-Sidebottom

 

[Luke]

Count,

What you are asking is a hard question and everybody will have different views so there is no definitive answer. Some people classify Muppet's in a technical way and see it as any puppet (or certain types of puppet) built by the Henson Company and some see it depending on the type or look of the character. So for instance most of the 'Emmet Otter' characters look like Muppet's but the 'Dinosaurs' and some of the 'Farscape' characters stereotypically do not. Whether they are or aren't depends on what your opinion is so it's basically upto you. For the official definition (if there is one) i would try emailing Karen Falk, the archivist at the Henson Company via fanmail@henson.com as she has always been pretty good helping people. You could try asking them for a Moppatop character list too but outside of the producers original notes i would guess all that exists is one for the main characters rather than the cameos and also the episode guide.

 

[The Count]

Luke, thanks for the post. Might end up trying to contact that person a little later.

Here's what I've decided upon so far.
1 Dinosaurs, Rejected!
2 Farscape, Rejected.
3 The Woobulous World of Dr. Seuss, Rejected.
The first two were rejected cause these characters, though puppets built by JHC just don't feel like befitting the Muppet Universe too me. The third, though rejected for the same reason, was also rejected cause these characters belong in a universe unto themselves the one created by Theodore Geisel himself.
4 Emmet Otter's Jugband Christmas, Definitely!
5 Bear in the Big Blue House, Definite.
6 The Hoobes, Definite.
7 The Christmas Toy, Definite.
The ones at the ends of this group will be added cause of the appearance by Kermit in both of them even if it was just a brief cameo. That, plus the fact that the song from The Christmas Toy was sung during the Muppet Christmas Sing-Along at the end of Muppet Family Christmas, tie them both into the Muppet Universe. The other two, will be added after help from generous forum members who gave of their own time in compiling the short lists for both productions.
8 The Dark Crystal.
9 Labyrinth.
10 The Witches.
These three were more serious-styled life movies, taking place in reality or at least the reality constructed for the film themselves. And while these will definitely form part of any well-rounded Henson productions library, I feel that the characters wouldn't mix well with the rest of the Muppet Universe. Oh, and my feelings would be the same for the upcoming movies Good Boy and Mirror Mask.
11 Mother Goose Stories.
12 Sam & Friends.
13 The Ghost of Faffner Hall.
Still not sure on adding MGS, thinking that I should include S&F for the historic/historian value of any reading through my vast Muppet Universe collection, and GOFH would be added for the same reasons as Emmet Otter and the Christmas Toy though it was a Dinger from SS who appeared in a cameo in the one and only episode of GOFH I ever saw gueststarring Bobby McFerrin.
Hope this helps and have a good night.
Any further help with the productions listed above as "Definite Additions" will be appreciated.
And it should be noted that inclusion of Moppatops is currently suspended until a wealthy infusion of help with the characters (both names, descripts, and distinguishing personalities) has been provided.
That is all for now. Enjoy the Muppet Universe listings I've provided in the past and the near future.

 

[Miss_Beaker]

Hmmm, perhaps I should show this Muppet Listing to my brother's jumped-up little squit of a mate who is adamant (and thinks we're all stupid for suggesting otherwise) that there are only 10 muppets! Has he even SEEN the show?

 

[The Count]

No, but if you pay us enough, I'm sure we can go to the cemetary and dig one up fright away!

BTW: Welcome to the Muppet Central forums, Miss_Beaker. This thread is one where I asked about further inclusion as of other Muppet/Henson productions' characters to be added to my master Muppet Listing. If you want to see/read the full scope of my passion or "obsession", search out another thread here in the Classic Muppets section of the forum called "Muppet Listings 8.0" That's the latest version of the list and boasts over 1450 entries, and the new updated version I'm working on clocks in at over 1500 entries. Can't give you a specific number cause I'm not done adding entries from certain productions I'm pursuing and there's still the renumbering process to go through, but as soon as it's done, look for it to be posted here first.
Hope this helps and enjoy your stay, read up on the 8.0 version of the listing, and have a good day.