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Another Jim Hill Muppet rant

Discussion in 'Muppet Headlines' started by Philip Kippel, Aug 2, 2005.

  1. Stulz

    Stulz Active Member


    here's my 2 cents aboiut this whole edited pitch reel fiasco.

    If Disney threw the pitch reel on the set as an Easter egg or as a hidden bonus not listed anywhere, still edited as it is now, I might be a little less ******. Simply because it would then be a happy surprise to find, and if I knew it was edited and didn't care to take the time to find it because of the edits then, I could watch the set and forget it was even there.

    But for Disney to put so much emphasise on the pitch reel's inclusion on the set and as "Something you were never meant to see" then edit it, seems just really bait and switch dishonest.

    If they are really trying to bulid the fan-base and market this set to collectors (Note the very graphic based cover design instead of using stock poser cast photos) then they need to leave everying "completly restored and remasterd" as advertised, and not "Edited because we can, and we'll get you $$ one, way or another."

    After the initial shock of hearing of the edits I too thought it might be because of the CBS logo, But here's where that theory falls flat to me:

    If they really wanted to keep it there are other options instead of a straight cut, such as:

    * Roto-scoping Kermit out and have him appear in front of the red cutians or some other Muppet Show related background

    * Relpacing the CBS logo with the ABC logo

    * Relpacing the CBS logo with a black background

    * Using other footage of Kermit that matches the vocal track

    * Having the dialogue audible over black


    See many options.

    If it really was for the CBS reasion then Disney just didn't try hard enough, and if it was for the PC reason then they obiously don't know how to tell a joke because Kermit's "What the H-E-L-L was that all about?" is the punch line to the entire build up of the frantic sales pitch that precedes it!

    Either way it won't effect my descion to get the set, but it definately dampens my apprecation for what truly could have been a "Completly Restored and Remasterd" first season.

    :boo: :grouchy:
  2. Vic Romano

    Vic Romano Active Member

    I knew nothing of the reel, so my opinion may not be valid, but while most believe it was edited for h-e double hockey sticks, and the fact that Stultz makes some very good points, the removal of this bit because of the logo makes plenty of sense. Think about this, if it was because of the word; wouldn't it be easier to just edit "What the h***" with Kermit's more popular "What the hay"?

    If it's the logo that's an issue, all of those ideas for removal of it are great, but cost time and money (too much time and money for two seconds!); and who's to say CBS just had a price set too high for the inclusion of the logo or Disney (or CBS) was too stubborn to bargain?

    Over dubbing the word "hay" would have been cheap and very easy (as Kermit said it all the time and anybody with Window's sound recorder could do it!).

    So my feelings (in the bussiness sense of it all) would be it was edited for copyright reasons. The set is clearly being marketed for adults as well (how many kids want to be bothered with DVD extras?), and (like the Muppets) Disney isn't all about a squeaky-clean-just-for-kiddies all the time either, they make PG movies still and understand that "he**" isn't a big word. Now if Kermit dropped the "F" bomb, now that would be very different... and extremely intriuging. "What the f$%# was that?" I can see a lot of jaws dropping for that one! LOL!
  3. muppet_dk

    muppet_dk Active Member

    I havent seen the original pitch tape, but I don't belive that Disney made the cut just because of the word h***, if it's true that theres a logo with kermit then that would proberly be the main reason for the cut.
    Also in the Ethyl Merman episode Animal does say "Perfect b****" and that is still on the season set. So If they would let animal say b**** there would not be a reason not to let kermit say h***.

    Edit: Hmm.... MC seems to censor the B word but Disney dont :)
  4. Correction: Animal says "Pitch", not the "b" word that rhymes with it.
  5. muppet_dk

    muppet_dk Active Member

    Hm...just thought it sounded like "b"
  6. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear Well-Known Member

    Cause sometimes your friend here isn't so bright. I'll edit my post right now! Good call!
  7. Gorgon Heap

    Gorgon Heap Active Member

    Remember Stulz, the first season content is still restored; only an extra feature- one that is not technically part of the first season or any season- has been edited.

    I am more worried about what they could do to the Johnny Cash and Mac Davis episodes of TMS, and the two Janice lines in GMC and TMTM.

    Has anyone actually ASKED the Muppets Holding Company and/or Disney why the edit was made, and if it is for the reason of the word and not the logo, if they plan to make other edits such as the ones mentioned in the previous sentence? If not, where does one ask?

    David "Gorgon Heap" Ebersole
  8. Ernie101

    Ernie101 Active Member

    Gordon, asking them why would be the easiest thing to do. I would be interested in knowing why they have chosen to cut the line out..just as a fan. What part of Disney was in charge of the DVD? If their was an email address, that would be easiest. I don't trust snail mail all the time.
  9. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear Well-Known Member

    Is anybody following this thread here about the CUTS IN THE SHOWS???

    Dave, you need a copy of this thing now so you can tell us all where things are cut, too. I've always known you as the Muppet-Guru! This is wild to suddenly find out what all's been cut!
  10. Stulz

    Stulz Active Member

    Not quite...

    Not quite.. Muppet DK just posted on Tough Pigs that the Vincent Price episode is missing "you've got a friend" as well as Wayne and Wanda and the Newsman!
  11. MWoO

    MWoO Active Member

    WHAT????? WHY???????//

    I'm not buying this.
  12. Stulz

    Stulz Active Member

    Slight misinformation..

    Sorry the Newsman and Wayne and Wanda cuts are from the Joel Grey episode not Vincent Price.
  13. amiki chan

    amiki chan Member

    Amen to that! There is absolutely no reason for Disney to not include the FULL pitch reel. I might change my mind and buy it later but I kinda doubt it after this. The library will get this set and I'll watch theirs.
  14. Stulz

    Stulz Active Member


    Just a heads up:

    You might want to change your bottom quote. Johnny said that to Sal. There's no Muppet named Larry.

  15. MWoO

    MWoO Active Member

    Why the cuts to the episodes?
  16. amiki chan

    amiki chan Member

    LOL!! You're so very right! Don't know what I was thinking about. Now I'm wondering if I spelled his last name right ;)
  17. Gorgon Heap

    Gorgon Heap Active Member

    Yeah, I just found that out today. I just canceled my order; I have been collecting for years and already have the first season uncut, with opening titles. I was mostly interested in the special features, and partly in having the first season uncut in digital quality, but if it's not uncut, I'm not going to bother, at least for now. I may rent it and see if it's worth it.

    My guess is that the cuts were accidental, probably used incomplete copies and didn't know it. THIS needs to be remedied. Anyone planning to email TMC/Disney about why the cut in the promo should first and foremost ask why the cuts in the episodes, thus pointing out the (assumed) oversight. Be polite, thank them for putting the set out in the first place, and then ask about the edits. Try to pose it sounding curious rather than annoyed, disappointed rather than fuming. And we all need to do this, I'm talking email FLOOD here. The Time-Life videos and DVDs at least left the content of the main episode intact. My guess is that whoever made the DVDs either got the wrong masters, or that the PAL masters have lost some footage or deteriorated in parts, to the point of being unsalvageable. Your guess is as good as mine.

    As soon as someone has an email address to send the concern to, they should post it in a new thread.

    David "Gorgon Heap" Ebersole
  18. Yep. They should certainly post it...along with a sample letter.
  19. minor muppetz

    minor muppetz Well-Known Member

    one thing we should think about regarding the original ending line in the pitch tape that I don't think has been mentioend yet: at the time that it was made, Jim Henson probably didn't ever expect it to be seen by the general public. It was only made as a way to possibly sell the show to a network. Even when it became common for programs to be released on video, The Jim Henson Company probably never expected it to be released to the public.
  20. MWoO

    MWoO Active Member

    And so you are sayijg Disney cut it because they talked to Jim Henson from the great beyond and he said they should cut it?

    At Muppet Fest the reel was shown and they did not cut it and that was done by the Jim Henson Company and Brian Henson was there as well as the rest of the family I'm sure.

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